How Much Do You Care About Novelty?

[Umbran]

Moreover, 'direct narrative influence' was never part of what defines Narrative RPGs in the first place, and is completely absent from the original game as thesis by Ron Edwards, Sorcerer. Of course these definitions change, but that may also mean many of the things you mentioned fit under that definition.

Yeah, but I think at this point invoking Edwards is kind of like invoking Gygax on D&D design. Yes, he was influential in the past, but his view is now out of date. We've learned a great deal since his time.

Fair enough. I tend to conflate "narrative" and "disassociated" mechanics in my head.

I understand the conflation, because there was a time when a lot of disassociated mechanics were used for narrative purposes. But really, "narrative" and "disassociated" (or "adiegetic" for those who prefer that term) are orthogonal. One is about the agenda served by the mechanic, the other is about the form the mechanic takes.

And, while as phrased, bennies look dissociated or adiegetic, all we need to do is call it "willpower", "grit", or "spoons", and suddenly it is the character taking a deep breath, focusing, and finding the strength in themselves that yields better results, and it becomes a thing that happens directly in the fiction, and even sort of simulates things real-world people can sometimes do.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm glad you're lucky enough to have players who have no problem hopping systems.

Don't get me wrong; I know some people do have a problem with that, but if that started happening locally I'd, first, try to find remote players I could put something together with (which is not necessarily easy given the combination of time zone issues, available time and days and other factors) and if I couldn't make it work--well, I was serious. I'm not insistent on any concept of "no gaming is better than bad gaming" but D&D style games (let alone 5e derivatives which have a couple features that actively put me off) one after another just isn't going to do it. I'm not going to fault someone who feels differently though.

 

[Thomas Shey]

So if I can accept any narrative mechanic I have to be fine with all of them?

Lets just say the line you're drawing in this case seems awfully idiosyncratic. We're not talking about systems used to do a lot of course scene setting or anything.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Tangential of that, in a supers game set in 1900 when I unleashed an Iron Man style villain with the suit that had a steam engine powering its hydraulics and a pair of arm-mounted flame throwers, the players’ eyes absolutely bugged out in amazement.

We had a kind of ongoing gig in a multi-GM superhero campaign we had many years ago where a number of us had multiple characters, and some of us dropped into this kind of "can you top this" thing with power armor characters. My contribution was "Oaken", a scientist who's power suit was a bioengineered tree.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Lets just say the line you're drawing in this case seems awfully idiosyncratic. We're not talking about systems used to do a lot of course scene setting or anything.

Agree to disagree, the loooong history if hit points as a concept to me sets it apart to some degree from other narrative mechanics. And as @Umbran said, there are ways to see it that are at least somewhat diagetic, if you squint.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Agree to disagree, the loooong history if hit points as a concept to me sets it apart to some degree from other narrative mechanics. And as @Umbran said, there are ways to see it that are at least somewhat diagetic, if you squint.

Which is why I suggested it. For the most part, bennies aren't particularly distinguishable from something like willpower under the majority of uses.

 

[Maxperson]

@doctorbadwolf called it the Tyranny of Novelty. That overwhelming need to
innovate at the cost of continuity and quality.

We’ve seen time and time again that new stories can be found in old material and existing tropes. Particularly when some tropes are leant into and subverted.

I’d love to see a good old 1-10 AP set in the Dalelands or Cormyr. It doesn’t need to be set on the elemental plane of sponge.

 

[Reynard]

Tangential of that, in a supers game set in 1900 when I unleashed an Iron Man style villain with the suit that had a steam engine powering its hydraulics and a pair of arm-mounted flame throwers, the players’ eyes absolutely bugged out in amazement.

That seems like a fairly obvious bit of steampunkery, especially in supers game. i mean, it is a cool idea, but I would be shocked if people playing a supers game were themselves shocked at Steampunk Iron Man.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That seems like a fairly obvious bit of steampunkery, especially in supers game. i mean, it is a cool idea, but I would be shocked if people playing a supers game were themselves shocked at Steampunk Iron Man.

Well, they were.

 

[John Dallman]

Well, they were.

Were they used to "Steampunk" as a fashion style, rather than a subgenre of science fiction?