WotC How much does Hasbro / WotC impact your feelings towards D&D?

[DEFCON 1]

He is not paying his designers more than $150K. Wizards is also not paying their designers $150K. Please stop comparing apples to grapefruit.

So you're telling me that a small studio can afford to pay better than a multi-billion dollar entertainment conglomerate that operates the world's largest roleplaying game?

More likely, it's that Hasbro doesn't care about its employees.

The source is Coville's video where he talks about how he pays the designers who work on his projects. I'd have to go through hours of video to find it. But he says that the rate of pay currently at Wizards is the same as when he used to write there. If I come across it, I'll be sure to share it.

Different scales give different results.

MCDM has brought in lots of money via their Kickstarters, has a Patreon that brings in a certain amount, and has a select number of employees with which to distribute that money. So what they have can be focused on more laser-like decisions of where to direct their funds. Hasbro is a huge corporation of course as you say... but is paying out huge amounts of money to places that MCDM does not have to deal with. All the different departments in both toys and games, their marketing departments, their human resources, all the facility management from their offices and factories across the US, multitudes of travel expenses, not to mention their probably huge numbers of legal staff and insurance payments. And that's only the beginning. And that doesn't even include all the facets of the executive offices plus what goes out to shareholders and the like.

So while I agree with you that a corporation like Hasbro could obviously pay employees more money than what they currently do-- I do not disagree with you there-- we can't look at a dozen-employee company like MCDM and think their finances can just scale up on a 1-for-1 basis until they reach Hasbro's size. It's much more exponential rather than linear. Thus I don't think anyone should bother trying to make comparisons between these two different types of companies because the scales just don't align.

 

[Remathilis]

You're missing 3a-3z (modular approach)
3a. Insert a plunge pool
3b. Insert a jacuzzi
3c. Build a deck
3d. Extend the porch
3e. Build a deck and insert a pool
3f. Turn the tv room into a bedroom.
3g. Move a wall, build an extra fire-place and extend the porch.
3h.-3z.

Is the original house still standing? If yes, it's still 1. If no, it's 2.

 

[Parmandur]

Which IMO should be zero for either of them. They have both made mistakes and addressed them, like most companies that want to remain in business tend to do.

I would really be interested in how many people who answered a 5 in this poll give anywhere near the same scrutiny to every single company they buy stuff from. That sounds exhausting.

Yeah, exactlty: like D&D, buy D&D: don't, then don't. Like Pathfinder, buy Pathfinder: don't, then don't.

The companies that make the product are not the product, they are just companies like any other.

 

[Mistwell]

He is not paying his designers more than $150K. Wizards is also not paying their designers $150K. Please stop comparing apples to grapefruit.

We were speaking of their recent ad for a designer that paid up to $150K. I am comparing fairly.

So you're telling me that a small studio can afford to pay better than a multi-billion dollar entertainment conglomerate that operates the world's largest roleplaying game?

You don't get ethics credits for being smaller. If the job is worth X dollars, it's worth X dollars. That's the fair market rate for the job. Expecting someone to take less money because you can afford less money isn't ethical. If they cannot afford to do the business they're in, then they can't afford it. But don't put that burden on the worker to take less as a charitable thing for their employer. They're the SECOND LARGEST TTRPG COMPANY ON THE PLANET. Ten years ago they were the #1 company. Pay what the job market says that job is worth!

More likely, it's that Hasbro doesn't care about its employees.

Again, we're talking about Paizo who abused their employees so bad that's why they formed a union, by admission of the company!

The source is Coville's video where he talks about how he pays the designers who work on his projects. I'd have to go through hours of video to find it. But he says that the rate of pay currently at Wizards is the same as when he used to write there. If I come across it, I'll be sure to share it.

We're talking about an actual real life right now ad for a designer for WOTC. It's very clearly, by any standard, 2-3 times as much as Paizo is paying for the same position in their ad right now. It's fair to point it out when someone makes the claim that Paizo is such a better company than WOTC.

 

[TheSword]

He is not paying his designers more than $150K. Wizards is also not paying their designers $150K. Please stop comparing apples to grapefruit.

So you're telling me that a small studio can afford to pay better than a multi-billion dollar entertainment conglomerate that operates the world's largest roleplaying game?

More likely, it's that Hasbro doesn't care about its employees.

The source is Coville's video where he talks about how he pays the designers who work on his projects. I'd have to go through hours of video to find it. But he says that the rate of pay currently at Wizards is the same as when he used to write there. If I come across it, I'll be sure to share it.

Ok.

I mean he’s also openly said that he got more money for what he did than he could ever have dreamt. He’s a small indie publishing house that has received millions of dollars off the back of his extreme you tube popularity. He’s great, I really enjoy listening to him and have several books. But similarly to Critical Role you can’t compare that to a normal publishing house.

 

[Voadam]

Is this the WotC game designer position?

It says:

Compensation Range, Currency USD:​

• Starting Pay Range: $86,695
• Pay Range End: $145,751

In compliance with local law, we are disclosing the compensation range for this role.


Sounds like starting pay is $86K, and the position eventually potentially capping out at a maximum salary of $145K. It does not seem to read to me as a starting salary range of 86-145.

86 is still more than 40 or 50, but I don't think we should be saying WotC is offering 150 here.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I am recruiting for my anti WOTC group. Is anyone here interested in joining. D&d won't liberate itself!

 

[mamba]

I mean he’s also openly said that he got more money for what he did than he could ever have dreamt. He’s a small indie publishing house that has received millions of dollars off the back of his extreme you tube popularity. He’s great, I really enjoy listening to him and have several books. But similarly to Critical Role you can’t compare that to a normal publishing house.

as long as D&D has about a 50% ROI it is hard to argue that the WotC creatives could not get paid more money however

 

[TheSword]

as long as D&D has about a 50% ROI it is hard to argue that the WotC creatives could not get paid more money however

That not how pay works.

Salary is determined by what you need to pay to secure the skills you’re willing to pay for. Some pay may be supplemented by performance pay or company bonuses on success. But fundamentally you pay a competitive rate for what you need. There are exceptions of course but they are not typical.

Don’t forget only a tiny fraction of people working at WoTC are game designers. Most are accountants, administrators, IT, ER, production, legal, service, marketing, procurement etc make up far far more people.

 

[Mistwell]

Is this the WotC game designer position?

It says:

Compensation Range, Currency USD:​

• Starting Pay Range: $86,695
• Pay Range End: $145,751

In compliance with local law, we are disclosing the compensation range for this role.


Sounds like starting pay is $86K, and the position eventually potentially capping out at a maximum salary of $145K. It does not seem to read to me as a starting salary range of 86-145.

86 is still more than 40 or 50, but I don't think we should be saying WotC is offering 150 here.

Yes that's the job. It doesn't start at $86K that's the minimum, it's a depending on experience position. The job states "$86.7K/yr - $145.8K/yr" but LinkedIn has you put in the minimum and maximum RANGE for your starting pay that you're hiring at. The job can pay as little as that, or as much as $146K, at the start depending on the experience of the person. It doesn't "cap out." Jobs don't "cap out"?

If you compare it to the job description at Paizo, you will see it's very similar. They're offering a fixed starting pay of $48K. So yes, it is fair to characterize this as about 1/2 to 1/3 the pay WOTC is paying for a similar job. We can quibble about minor differences but that's a distraction from the reality that Paizo is paying SO MUCH LESS that it's at least noteworthy for a conversation about how Paizo is such a better company than WOTC, which is the claim made.