How Much is That Fighter in the Window?

[Majoru Oakheart]

And if they earned it, why should they waste a feat on it ? If your character is brillant enough through his actions to win the trust of an army of followers, why should he renounce to learn "great cleave" ?
And why should he have 100 first level mooks rather than 10 2th level buddy ? And why one cohort of level -1 rather than two of level -4 ? You encounter NPC, you interact with them. If you are able to convince them to follow you, they do.
There may be guidelines and advice in the DMG to help the DM keep things balanced, but I really hate the leadership feat and similar stuff.

Because it gives them a clear mechanical advantage over the other players. If nearly 100% of the time a cohort will fight along side you, then you are essentially getting a second attack every round or a buffing spell cast on you each round or healing each round, and so on for free.

Why should one player get that for free and not another one? Because he made a good speech? That certainly favors one player type over another one a lot. I know there is at least one type of player who keeps their head down, doesn't say much and would prefer to describe their actions rather than give flowery roleplaying. These players are much more likely to say "My character thanks the men for their help." This likely won't impress the DM and likely won't be noticed.

Whereas the player who says "Thank you gentleman, without your help we would have been killed for sure. I owe you a debt of gratitude. If only I had someone of your skill around all of the time then adventuring would be so much safer." gets the DM thinking and might have the DM offer the services of the NPCs to follow the player around and help them.

And a DM who is thinking only of roleplaying might be inclined to give the player a castle, and a couple hundred guards to protect it, and a castle mage. And in one way that might be fun. In another, that player now has HUGE power than the others don't. The game now uses up more time on him and he becomes more important to the plot.

 

[LostSoul]

What I despise is things like "leadership'" allowing a PC to pop hirelings without any in game reasons. GP are an in-game reason. Feats, level and abstract ability are not.

It seems that giving an in-game reason for the benefits of Leadership would be as easy to do as to give an in-game reason for the benefits of Great Cleave.

I think that followers or henchmen should be counted as treasure. Well, it would be one way to handle it. Too bad there's no formula for CR x = y GPs.

 

[I'm A Banana]

What I despise is things like "leadership'" allowing a PC to pop hirelings without any in game reasons. GP are an in-game reason. Feats, level and abstract ability are not.

But there is an in-game reason. Namely, "Someone has heard of my exploits and chooses to assist me!" It's limited to 6th level because the way the XP system works, you need to have a few "exploits" under your belt before people hear of them. XP is awared for your exploits, so the more adventures you've had, the higher level you have.

So when someone takes the Leadership feat, what they're really saying is "My name is known far and wide and people I've never met respect and fear me enough to offer their loyalty and lives to me."

I think some creature should not be trained. Let say only beast with 2 Int can be trained. Thus, most reptile/fish/batracian (1 Int) could not be trained. As far as I know, no one has been able to train a shark...

Sahagin.

And come on, do you really want your fantasy nature character to be limited by the bounds of what nature is in the Real World? Why *shouldn't* I train a T-Rex?

 

[Kaffis]

I want to see my high-level paladins leading orders of knights, or thieves guilds, or units of soldiers, and being able to call on those people for meaningful help.

You play strange paladins -- you want your high-level paladins leading thieves guilds?

 

[Ilium]

I agree that the Leadership feat has a real place. I think the problem is that D&D tries to have it both ways. There's the Leadership feat, but then there are affiliations and teamwork benefits which you get if your GM is feeling generous or is impressed with your roleplaying.

If game balance is the concern, I'd rather see something like Hero system, where you pay for everything. You want followers? Pony up some character points. Contacts? Character points. Cool high-tech vehicle with dual .50 Cal machine guns behind the headlights? You guessed it, character points. Best-balanced system I've ever played, but I've played a lot more D&D over the years.