D&D 5E How Much Lore is Enough?

[Greg K]

But, when you start telling me that this race is a slave race to that race, I find that a bit much.

I feel the same way.

 

[Hussar]

Heh. Some strange bedfellows on this one.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Yeah, pretty much whistling in the dark here.

Yes, seems you want a generic fantasy game, D&D is obviously not the game for you, I would recommend moving on.

 

[Nivenus]

Yes, seems you want a generic fantasy game, D&D is obviously not the game for you, I would recommend moving on.

I think that's unnecessarily harsh. D&D's always operated somewhere between generic fantasy and geared towards specific settings. Even 5e flirts with the boundary - just look at how it includes historical polytheistic pantheons in the appendix about gods, right alongside the FR, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Eberron pantheons.

From what I've seen of the previews, I don't think the 5e MM's really pushing the boundary of too much specific information; it actually seems light on lore in a lot of places. And in general I'm an avid fan of fluff, so I don't really mind it being in there at all. Still, I think it's uncalled for to tell someone their way of playing D&D is "wrong."

The better question I think is, what serves the broader needs of the D&D player base more: lots of fluff or a minimalistic approach? I think the answer is somewhere in-between, though I definitely lean towards more fluff than less (and honestly, the fluff is generally why I buy MMs).

 

[Desdichado]

Yes, seems you want a generic fantasy game, D&D is obviously not the game for you, I would recommend moving on.

I love how every time someone expresses the fact that they don't like some aspect or other of D&D--no matter how minor--that there's always someone out there eager to outgroup them and tell them they should play some other game.

I don't know how many times I've explained what I want out of D&D only to be told that I should be playing WFRP, for instance. Well, I don't want to play WFRP! I want to play D&D. I just want to bring some dark fantasy and horror themes to it a little better than "default" does. It's not that hard. I manage to pull it off, I think. I really don't need to be told that I should be playing some other game, etc.

Another thing that I complained about with regards to D&D for years was the change in genre as we level up. And lo and behold, "bounded accuracy" becomes a major design goal of 5e.

There's value in discussing D&D--where it works, where it doesn't, what you think of various aspects of it. There's no reason to blindly accept all of D&D, and if there's something about D&D you don't like, go play another game already.

 

[Umbran]

Folks, "Chest Rockwell" here was an alt of a user we recently permabanned. Please ignore his posts. Thanks.

 

[Rune]

they do not have me in chains in a Renton basement; they do not have a drone targeting solution on my wife and cats. When one of those things is true, I will complain.

I hope not. For the sake of your wife and cats.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think the 5e MM accomplishes what the designers set out to do. They made a deliberate choice to include a lot of lore and to link the monsters together in an effort to inspire people to use the creatures in play and to keep the monsters diverse and linked to deeper stories and plotlines.

That was the intent, as far as I can tell. I think they succeeded on that.

What the 5e MM is not is a world-neutral set of monster stats and plot ideas for DMs to use as they see fit. Or a book for encounter generation and story hooks. That's not the intent. I think some people wanted something more in that vein, and this MM doesn't do that, and doesn't TRY to do that.

I like lore, but I don't like One True Story. The 5e MM presents One True Story for the monsters, and it bugs me to no end. Stuff like this "slave race" weirdness is much less useful to me than something like "rumored to have connections with the Efreeti and some claim to have seen them fighting Azers."

Makes me want to write my own MM.

 

[SkidAce]

I think the 5e MM accomplishes what the designers set out to do. They made a deliberate choice to include a lot of lore and to link the monsters together in an effort to inspire people to use the creatures in play and to keep the monsters diverse and linked to deeper stories and plotlines.

That was the intent, as far as I can tell. I think they succeeded on that.

What the 5e MM is not is a world-neutral set of monster stats and plot ideas for DMs to use as they see fit. Or a book for encounter generation and story hooks. That's not the intent. I think some people wanted something more in that vein, and this MM doesn't do that, and doesn't TRY to do that.

I like lore, but I don't like One True Story. The 5e MM presents One True Story for the monsters, and it bugs me to no end. Stuff like this "slave race" weirdness is much less useful to me than something like "rumored to have connections with the Efreeti and some claim to have seen them fighting Azers."

Makes me want to write my own MM.

Indeed. A good portion of my homebrew IS rewrites of MM lore.

For example....dragons are not divided by color (merely a trend) and kobolds are dog rats.


As it should be.

 

[DMZ2112]

I think that's unnecessarily harsh. D&D's always operated somewhere between generic fantasy and geared towards specific settings. Even 5e flirts with the boundary - just look at how it includes historical polytheistic pantheons in the appendix about gods, right alongside the FR, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Eberron pantheons.

There have been historical setting books for D&D. The inclusion of those pantheons doesn't indicate genericism, just greater diversity of content. I disagree with the notion that D&D is a generic game in the vein of GURPS or FATE or Savage Worlds. It can be used that way, certainly, but ultimately you can reflavor any game -- there's a Neon Genesis Evangelion fangame that uses the WH40KRP ruleset. The mind boggles. That does not make WH40KRP a generic RPG.

D&D has a spirit that pervades all of D&D. Greyhawk is D&D; Forgotten Realms is D&D; even Dark Sun and Eberron are still D&D. You can make a homebrew world that goes out of its way to not be D&D but I just don't understand why you would bother. There are much better options, if you are uninterested in the spirit of the game.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: D&D5 is polygnostic, not agnostic. You can say the same thing to a lesser degree about all D&D. It encompasses many things. That does not make the game less specific, it makes it more specific.

I really do think D&D occupies a unique niche in this regard. Greyhawk and Nerath and Eberron and Planescape /impact/ D&D as a whole in a way that all the dozens of settings for FATE and Savage Worlds simply do not impact their core system. And I think this is a /strength/.