How Much Ore For A Sword?

[Cleon]

Sure. You sound like you're more of a Howard Purist than I am.

Then again, this sounds like me, after all. I pick and choose to serve the atmosphere of my game.

I contain multitudes. My Conan literary criticism self is a Howard purist, while my Conan in RPGs self tends more towards' "whatever tickles my fancy".

When they have a disagreement it's settled with Broadswords At Dawn.

I think they are. A mail shirt would be AC 5 (or AC +5, for AC 15, in 3.5) in D&D, while it's light armor in Conan. A breast plate is medium armor in Conan where in D&D, I think that's considered plate or half-plate, a heavy armor.

That might be a result of d20 D&D's two different kinds of chain armour getting mixed up.

A chain shirt is light armour with a +4 armour bonus, while chainmail is medium armour with a +5 armour bonus.

Even then, all warriors get the Heavy Armor Feat. And, I don't think heavy armor would be that available, even if a few warriors in the clan did pick up a piece or two off their enemies.

True, but that's the best I could come up with without changing the rule and allowing the Barbarian class to be familiar with Light and Medium armors only.

That's curious, the d20 SRD version of the Barbarian class isn't skilled in heavy armour. Did they change that for Conan?

A Hunting Arrow in the Conan RPG does 1d8 damage, but your point is still true: Minimum armor of a Leather Jerkin is DR 4. Heck, leather bracers and a small helm is DR 2.

That seems rather too much for leather. Then again, I have read that the Conan RPG tends to have heavily armored characters be more-or-less immune to light weapons. I remember seeing a "actual play" thread where the DM was saying the party's nobleman could basically ignore a small horde of Picts because their hunting bows and hatchets didn't do enough damage to threaten his armour.

That's probably realistic but I'm not sure how Conanistic it is. The big guy seemed to shear through chainmail like rotten string - but then, he was supposedly one of the strongest men alive.

 

[Water Bob]

That's curious, the d20 SRD version of the Barbarian class isn't skilled in heavy armour. Did they change that for Conan?

Yup. From what I understand, the Conan RPG Barbarian is vastly different from the D&D 3.5E Barbarian Class. I've never read the latter, though.

That seems rather too much for leather. Then again, I have read that the Conan RPG tends to have heavily armored characters be more-or-less immune to light weapons. I remember seeing a "actual play" thread where the DM was saying the party's nobleman could basically ignore a small horde of Picts because their hunting bows and hatchets didn't do enough damage to threaten his armour.

You gotta remember that there's little healing in Conan. Typically, no spells, no potions, no magic items.

But I don't think I agree with that DM's comment, unless he doesn't understand the game. First off, most all of the weapons do more damage than they do in standard D&D. Second, if penetration equals or exceeds DR, the DR is halved. You get to add your STR bonus to your penetration. Thus, a leather jerkin at DR 4 is only DR 2 for most good hits. Even a weapon doing 1d6, there's still room for enough damage there (at 1d6 -2), especially when healing is scarce.

And, if you find someone who is wearing armor that you can't penetrate, either because you're weak or because you're using a weapon not made for penetration, you can also use the Finesse attack style. Sure, it's harder to hit, but if you do, you ignore armor all together and do full damage on your foe.

From an atmospheric point of view, though, in my game, armor isn't worn all that often. I enforce the rule that mail will cause fatigue if worn more than a day continuously. There's many encounters where the foes aren't wearing armor at all--or just a little armor.

It's not like D&D where the fighter is always wearing his plate.

 

[Cleon]

Yup. From what I understand, the Conan RPG Barbarian is vastly different from the D&D 3.5E Barbarian Class. I've never read the latter, though.

Well it's easy enough to see the 3.5 D&D Barbarian online as it's in the SRD. Frankly I never much cared for it being based on a Rage mechanism. Why isn't it called the Berserker class? That's what it is, basically.

 

[Cleon]

And, if you find someone who is wearing armor that you can't penetrate, either because you're weak or because you're using a weapon not made for penetration, you can also use the Finesse attack style. Sure, it's harder to hit, but if you do, you ignore armor all together and do full damage on your foe.

Don't you need the Weapon Finesse feat to use that style?

Anyhow, from what I remember the basic problem was low-level creatures being negligible threats to higher level PCs - they didn't have the attack bonuses to hit the PCs very often, and when they did they didn't have the damage to make much impact on them.

That's a pretty common problem in D&D encounters. It often requires some kind of minion mechanism (e.g. creatures with few HPs but PC-threatening attack values) or brute squad rules for a "mob of attackers" to be a worthwhile threat.

 

[Water Bob]

Don't you need the Weapon Finesse feat to use that style?

I don't know about standard d20. I know, in Conan, you don't. Any character can attempt a standard attack or a finesse attack. Plus, there are a ton of special combat maneuvers, if the character qualifies (almost like free feats or special abilities).

Combat in Conan is quite fun and a different experience from your normal d20 D&D scenario. Lots of options come up during the fights. It's much more than I-go-you-go dicing.

Anyhow, from what I remember the basic problem was low-level creatures being negligible threats to higher level PCs - they didn't have the attack bonuses to hit the PCs very often, and when they did they didn't have the damage to make much impact on them.

One mistake many D&Ders make when playing Conan is to notice that the Conan RPG is designed for lower level play. The Second Edition rulebook devotes a section to this. Most NPCs are 1st or 2nd level and hardly ever get higher than 10th level, even though the game maxes out at 20th level.

According to the 2nd Edition rulebook, entire campaigns can be played without seeing a 12+ level character.

That's a pretty common problem in D&D encounters. It often requires some kind of minion mechanism (e.g. creatures with few HPs but PC-threatening attack values) or brute squad rules for a "mob of attackers" to be a worthwhile threat.

That hasn't been my experience. See...the big equalizer is having the Massive Damage rule set at 20 points of damage. If a character does 20 points in one blow, then the target must save or be reduced automatically to 0 or below hit points. That's pretty much a save or die situation.

Even 1st level characters can put out that sort of damage if a critical is thrown.

 

[Cleon]

I don't know about standard d20. I know, in Conan, you don't. Any character can attempt a standard attack or a finesse attack. Plus, there are a ton of special combat maneuvers, if the character qualifies (almost like free feats or special abilities).

I know d20 Conan had a lot more combat options that don't require feats than SRD D&D, it's just been so long since I read through it that I couldn't remember them.

One mistake many D&Ders make when playing Conan is to notice that the Conan RPG is designed for lower level play. The Second Edition rulebook devotes a section to this. Most NPCs are 1st or 2nd level and hardly ever get higher than 10th level, even though the game maxes out at 20th level.

According to the 2nd Edition rulebook, entire campaigns can be played without seeing a 12+ level character.

Woah there! You're assuming my assumptions. From what I remember of the anecdote, the level gap wasn't that wide - it was something like 1st level Picts versus 3rd to 6th level PCs.

Besides, the problem was as much an equipment gap as a level gap, and from what I remember it was only the few PCs in heavy armour the DM was having problems hurting.

That hasn't been my experience. See...the big equalizer is having the Massive Damage rule set at 20 points of damage. If a character does 20 points in one blow, then the target must save or be reduced automatically to 0 or below hit points. That's pretty much a save or die situation.

Even 1st level characters can put out that sort of damage if a critical is thrown.

Yes, I remembered there was a Massive Damage threshold. It's difficult for a Pict to roll 20+ damage with a 1d8 damage weapon, though.

Anyhow, this thread seems to be getting side-tracked from the OP. I can't think of anything more ore-related to talk about, so shall we let it lie fallow?

 

[Water Bob]

Yes, I remembered there was a Massive Damage threshold. It's difficult for a Pict to roll 20+ damage with a 1d8 damage weapon, though.

It's difficult for any level to roll that much damage, the way the game is designed. Because there are no +1 or +5 weapons, you don't really see damage go up after 1st level except for the occasional point when the STR attribute is raised or a Feat is used (which usually means there's a penalty on the to-hit).

As a rule of thumb, your 1st level Conan RPG characters are doing (loosely) about the same damage as higher level folk.

Anyhow, this thread seems to be getting side-tracked from the OP. I can't think of anything more ore-related to talk about, so shall we let it lie fallow?

Okey-doke. It's been nice chatting with you.