D&D 5E How much punishment can a party take?

[MoonSong]

I have an scenario in mind for a game I'm running. It involves a large scale invasion by skeletons riding vultures, and some scarecrows on foot. Taking into account there's like 200 villagers to keep them busy, and the party of four is at fourth level, how many of them can they handle if the attack just won't stop? I don't want to kill the party, but I want to beat them within one inch of their lives so they feel some despair and the urgency. (As a house rule short rests are 5 minutes...)

Well also because I want to repeat this kind of large scale combat in the future of the campaign.

Edit: Also I have already read the XP budget rules and they are gibberish to me.

 

[Flamestrike]

I have an scenario in mind for a game I'm running. It involves a large scale invasion by skeletons riding vultures, and some scarecrows on foot. Taking into account there's like 200 villagers to keep them busy, and the party of four is at fourth level, how many of them can they handle if the attack just won't stop? I don't want to kill the party, but I want to beat them within one inch of their lives so they feel some despair and the urgency. (As a house rule short rests are 5 minutes...)

Well also because I want to repeat this kind of large scale combat in the future of the campaign.

According to the DMG 6-8 medium to hard encounters, allowing for around 2-3 short rests.

Throw a wave at them, then another. Then let them short rest for 5 minutes. Repeat, with two waves and another rest. Then do it again again, this time with three waves.

 

[MoonSong]

According to the DMG 6-8 medium to hard encounters, allowing for around 2-3 short rests.

Throw a wave at them, then another. Then let them short rest for 5 minutes. Repeat, with two waves and another rest. Then do it again again, this time with three waves.

Well, um yes the DMG says. But I'm not finding that helpful at all. I trip over the numbers. I'm asking because I have some problems with the math and the confusing rules. Can anybody help to tell me how many of each enemy should I have (from actual play experience)? I picked the enemies form rule of cool, and I want to have an army of them fight my players -a 4th level party of four-. This is like the first time I so something like this in 5e, and as good as bounded accuracy is, it means that I cannot just drown players in minions without risking a TPK. (I'm not a number-cruncher)

 

[iserith]

Well, um yes the DMG says. But I'm not finding that helpful at all. I trip over the numbers. I'm asking because I have some problems with the math and the confusing rules. Can anybody help to tell me how many of each enemy should I have (from actual play experience)? I picked the enemies form rule of cool, and I want to have an army of them fight my players -a 4th level party of four-. This is like the first time I so something like this in 5e, and as good as bounded accuracy is, it means that I cannot just drown players in minions without risking a TPK. (I'm not a number-cruncher)

You can use this tool to calculate the difficulty of each individual challenge. You may also find the rules for mass combat useful (though I've never used them myself).

If you are uncertain whether the PCs will be killed by the opposition you put forth, I strongly recommend you give the NPCs/monsters goals to achieve other than "Kill all PCs." When you do this, character death will be incidental and largely in the hands of the players as they seek to stop the NPCs/monsters from achieving their goals. Just set a fair means by which the opposition can achieve their goals, make sure the player are aware of it, and play to see what happens.

 

[jarandus]

You could also use the minion concept from 4e, having half of each wave or maybe a whole wave thrown in, of enemies just having 1 hp, the pcs wont necessarily know which ones are minions initially, and it will make the fight last longer, having them use more resources, since they will know that some of the enemies are more vulnerable than others. You can use the same statblock as normal skeletons/scarecrows, but maybe slightly reduce the minions damage output, say 1d4 or 1d6 when a minion hits.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Well, um yes the DMG says. But I'm not finding that helpful at all. I trip over the numbers. I'm asking because I have some problems with the math and the confusing rules. Can anybody help to tell me how many of each enemy should I have (from actual play experience)? I picked the enemies form rule of cool, and I want to have an army of them fight my players -a 4th level party of four-. This is like the first time I so something like this in 5e, and as good as bounded accuracy is, it means that I cannot just drown players in minions without risking a TPK. (I'm not a number-cruncher)

Actual play experience says: it varies widely, with builds and especially player tactics.

At the upper limit, four 4th level PCs mounted on horses and using ranged weapons in open terrain can kill nearly unlimited numbers of zombies until they run out of ammo.

At the lower limit, a two-man party of two Defense style/sword-and-shield 4th level Paladins will probably be close to the edge after fighting six waves of three zombies. Maybe even fewer than six waves if they are using two-handed weapons.

It's probably safe to treat the DMG calculations as a lower limit for what the PCs are guaranteed to be able to handle even if they fight pretty dumb. BTW, you can use http://kobold.club/fight/#/encounter-builder to calculate the DMG XP totals.

 

[MoonSong]

You can use this tool to calculate the difficulty of each individual challenge. You may also find the rules for mass combat useful (though I've never used them myself).

If you are uncertain whether the PCs will be killed by the opposition you put forth, I strongly recommend you give the NPCs/monsters goals to achieve other than "Kill all PCs." When you do this, character death will be incidental and largely in the hands of the players as they seek to stop the NPCs/monsters from achieving their goals. Just set a fair means by which the opposition can achieve their goals, make sure the player are aware of it, and play to see what happens.

Thank you for the link. But in this case, the goal is kill everybody.

 

[iserith]

Thank you for the link. But in this case, the goal is kill everybody.

Then I would suggest you just be okay with a TPK as an outcome. Otherwise, you're likely to be fudging which may or may not be desirable to you and/or your players.

 

[not-so-newguy]

Is the goal for the PCs to kill everything? Or the DM kill all the PCs?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Thank you for the link. But in this case, the goal is kill everybody.

Can you please give more details on your PCs and on the players' tactical style? Good estimates cannot be made in a vacuum.