How much technologywould you allow in a non-steampunk setting?
- Thread starter Huw
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Mouseferatu
Hero
Ringan said:
This is very much like I what I was about to say, but I'll expand on it further.
I think you made a mistake by saying "Whether magic or not" on some of those options. Even the difference is one entirely of terminology, it does make a difference. There's a huge gap in mood and feel between a true locomotive and Eberron's lightning rail, even if the purpose they serve and their general function are largely identical.
MoogleEmpMog
First Post
All of the above, because all of those are awesome and belong in a setting I'd want to play, either as common features, the results of a mad genius's forbidden research, or the fruits of antediluvian superscience.
But then, I am not interested in a conception of "fantasy" so lacking in the fantastic that it is defined by what cannot be included.
The worlds of pulp fantasy and sword and sorcery could include any and all of those things. In large numbers? Perhaps not, though the closely related sword and planet genre often encompassed them, along with ray guns and spaceships. Certainly one or two mechanical or superscience trinkets, either newly fashioned or unearthed from bygone ages, would fit in Conan's world as well as John Carter's.
The Bas Lag setting from Perdido Street Station is fantasy to me; so is the setting from Final Fantasy 6. Both have all of the listed elements; both are ALSO explicitly steampunk. One does not preclude the other.
Unless by "fantasy" you mean tired Tolkienesque tropes that were the way the were for narrative and ideological reasons in the Lord of the Rings and have been unblinkingly aped by unimaginative fantasists since. In which case none of the above fit - and neither, thank God, do I.
But then, I am not interested in a conception of "fantasy" so lacking in the fantastic that it is defined by what cannot be included.
The worlds of pulp fantasy and sword and sorcery could include any and all of those things. In large numbers? Perhaps not, though the closely related sword and planet genre often encompassed them, along with ray guns and spaceships. Certainly one or two mechanical or superscience trinkets, either newly fashioned or unearthed from bygone ages, would fit in Conan's world as well as John Carter's.
The Bas Lag setting from Perdido Street Station is fantasy to me; so is the setting from Final Fantasy 6. Both have all of the listed elements; both are ALSO explicitly steampunk. One does not preclude the other.
Unless by "fantasy" you mean tired Tolkienesque tropes that were the way the were for narrative and ideological reasons in the Lord of the Rings and have been unblinkingly aped by unimaginative fantasists since. In which case none of the above fit - and neither, thank God, do I.
Aeric
Explorer
While I chose "None," I disagree that any of those listed items would make a setting "steampunk" (an overused and misused term IMO, but that's another topic entirely). In the real world, firearms were used in Europe as early as the 14th century, which wasn't even the Renaissance yet. In fact, I believe I read somewhere in 2nd Edition that the 14th-century/Hundred Years' War era was considered to be the default tech level of (A)D&D. It's where full plate armor, longbows, crossbows, an early form of the rapier (the estoc), and AD&D's dizzying array of polearms came to prominence.
ThirdWizard
First Post
Modern day fantasy is fun!
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
I have a large number of these in my Midwood and Ptolus campaigns, but this is probably the last generation that most of them will be available. The heliograph communication system is already non-functional in almost all of the empire, and only survives in the homeland of the Grailwarden dwarves. Children born in the last few generations have either not had the interest or the aptitude to keep machines going, and except for a few groups that practically fetishize machines, no one seems to really notice or care.
It's not steampunk, it's the precipice of a dark age.
It's not steampunk, it's the precipice of a dark age.
CruelSummerLord
First Post
My complicated answer:
For me, it is of the utmost importance to nurture and protect the integrity of the setting above all else. That means no fantasy/Western crossovers, a lack of magical items and high-level characters, and most certainly no firearms, industrialization, or anything like that that might provoke an industrial revolution.
Unlike MoogleEmpMog, I am perfeclty happy remaining in the Tolkienesque "tropes"; I see no reason to add in more modern elements that I don't like, and that I would see as contaminating the setting. I myself believe there's plenty of life left in the classic plain-vanilla Tolkien-clone setting, and that you can just as easily put fresh spins on old ideas as create new ones. YMMV.
Anyway, there are several steps I've taken to protect my own version of the setting from contamination:
-First off, oil and gasoline are in far too limited a quantity to supply the needs of an industrial revolution, and they do not work the same way they do in real life-sure, oil can burn trolls, but it can't burn to power an engine. If we're going to be messing with ecology and physics, I see no reason why we can't muck with chemistry, too.
-Gnomes are the masters of technology. They can make primitive versions of the printing press, strange devices the likes of which you might see in the sketchbooks of Leonardo Da Vinci, and come up with all sorts of other labor-saving devices, but these things must all be powered by muscle power. It is also worth noting that humans cannot get gnomish devices to work for them. A human and a gnome each trying to build their own printing press, each following the exact same blueprints, will find that the gnome's printing press invariably works better than the human's, which is more likely to fall apart than anything else, although clocks and other devices could possibly work when built by humans.
-With no combustion, the only sources of power are water or wind, and usually far more common brute muscle power. Sophisticated things such as primitive cranes, rock drills, and other labor-saving devices based on counterweights, leverage principles, and other things, but they all have to be powered by hand. Wind and water power are usually insufficient for larger-scale devices, which means no clockwork-powered submarines or non-magical airships.
-The mortal races are still using the very same weapons and armor technology they were using five thousand years ago; and five thousand years hence, they will be wearing the same suits of plate mail and chainmail, and wielding the same swords and axes they do now, although obviously the styles and appearance will change with time.
For me, it is of the utmost importance to nurture and protect the integrity of the setting above all else. That means no fantasy/Western crossovers, a lack of magical items and high-level characters, and most certainly no firearms, industrialization, or anything like that that might provoke an industrial revolution.
Unlike MoogleEmpMog, I am perfeclty happy remaining in the Tolkienesque "tropes"; I see no reason to add in more modern elements that I don't like, and that I would see as contaminating the setting. I myself believe there's plenty of life left in the classic plain-vanilla Tolkien-clone setting, and that you can just as easily put fresh spins on old ideas as create new ones. YMMV.
Anyway, there are several steps I've taken to protect my own version of the setting from contamination:
-First off, oil and gasoline are in far too limited a quantity to supply the needs of an industrial revolution, and they do not work the same way they do in real life-sure, oil can burn trolls, but it can't burn to power an engine. If we're going to be messing with ecology and physics, I see no reason why we can't muck with chemistry, too.
-Gnomes are the masters of technology. They can make primitive versions of the printing press, strange devices the likes of which you might see in the sketchbooks of Leonardo Da Vinci, and come up with all sorts of other labor-saving devices, but these things must all be powered by muscle power. It is also worth noting that humans cannot get gnomish devices to work for them. A human and a gnome each trying to build their own printing press, each following the exact same blueprints, will find that the gnome's printing press invariably works better than the human's, which is more likely to fall apart than anything else, although clocks and other devices could possibly work when built by humans.
-With no combustion, the only sources of power are water or wind, and usually far more common brute muscle power. Sophisticated things such as primitive cranes, rock drills, and other labor-saving devices based on counterweights, leverage principles, and other things, but they all have to be powered by hand. Wind and water power are usually insufficient for larger-scale devices, which means no clockwork-powered submarines or non-magical airships.
-The mortal races are still using the very same weapons and armor technology they were using five thousand years ago; and five thousand years hence, they will be wearing the same suits of plate mail and chainmail, and wielding the same swords and axes they do now, although obviously the styles and appearance will change with time.
Everything I put in Mechamancy, or magic-technology up to about 1700.
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