How necessary it is to have interrupting actions in the game?

[foolish_mortals]

you can do it, I don't think that interrupted action thinger appeared until 3rd. So you had a good 20 years of it not existing. We can do without it.

foolish_mortals

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Some things should always be interruptable given the above:
- Casting almost any spell (and spells should take time to cast, none of this "I cast and resolve on my turn before anyone can do anything")

This, especially. All spells need a cast time. I'm not saying go back to segments, just add a cast time to spells. Just adding the level of the spell to your initiative should be fine in most cases. Simple one word spells like the various power word spells could be exceptions. You start casting on your initiative, finish on the adjusted initiative. This gives the opposition a chance to interrupt even first level spells. No more concentration checks to keep the spell. It's just gone. This will go a long, LONG way toward balancing spellcasters with melee classes. Then we don't need to give fighter's stupid martial effects that mimic spells in all but name to keep up.

 

[Hassassin]

This, especially. All spells need a cast time. I'm not saying go back to segments, just add a cast time to spells. Just adding the level of the spell to your initiative should be fine in most cases. Simple one word spells like the various power word spells could be exceptions. You start casting on your initiative, finish on the adjusted initiative. This gives the opposition a chance to interrupt even first level spells. No more concentration checks to keep the spell. It's just gone. This will go a long, LONG way toward balancing spellcasters with melee classes. Then we don't need to give fighter's stupid martial effects that mimic spells in all but name to keep up.

Adding to initiative is useless math to my taste. It would also encourage annoying metagame choices like: "I cast a cone of cold. No, wait, then the orcs would get a turn first... Fireball it is!"

Just have the spell take until the wizard's next turn to cast. Like 1 round casting time in 3e, except standard action is fine.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Adding to initiative is useless math to my taste. It would also encourage annoying metagame choices like: "I cast a cone of cold. No, wait, then the orcs would get a turn first... Fireball it is!"

Just have the spell take until the wizard's next turn to cast. Like 1 round casting time in 3e, except standard action is fine.

Not necessarily. If initiative is a D20, the 2 point difference between fireball and coc is not that big a deal, considering the damage difference. There's only a 10% chance the orcs would go first if they wouldn't beat him to the fireball anyway.

And taking an entire round ensures it can be interrupted. There could be as many as 19 different initiative results that could ruin the spell as opposed to 3.

Edit: I also don't see it as metagaming. The bird in the hand and all that. Any wizard worth the name should know some spells take loger to cast than others. Time in which he's vulnerable.

 

[Hassassin]

Not necessarily. If initiative is a D20, the 2 point difference between fireball and coc is not that big a deal, considering the damage difference. There's only a 10% chance the orcs would go first if they wouldn't beat him to the fireball anyway.

And taking an entire round ensures it can be interrupted. There could be as many as 19 different initiative results that could ruin the spell as opposed to 3.

Edit: I also don't see it as metagaming. The bird in the hand and all that. Any wizard worth the name should know some spells take loger to cast than others. Time in which he's vulnerable.

Oh, I meant when you know your and the orcs' initiative. Even if the DM keeps those secret you may know they are between the fighter (who rolled X) and the ranger (who rolled X+2) etc.

Are you speaking from a 2e perspective? 'Cos we don't reroll initiative every round these days.

Is it a problem that every spell gets a chance to be interrupted? If the fighter is doing his job...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Not necessarily. If initiative is a D20, the 2 point difference between fireball and coc is not that big a deal, considering the damage difference. There's only a 10% chance the orcs would go first if they wouldn't beat him to the fireball anyway.

And taking an entire round ensures it can be interrupted. There could be as many as 19 different initiative results that could ruin the spell as opposed to 3.

Edit: I also don't see it as metagaming. The bird in the hand and all that. Any wizard worth the name should know some spells take loger to cast than others. Time in which he's vulnerable.

The question is, is all the added complexity of the solution actually making the overall result simpler? Nor does it address the other things 'interrupts' address, like OAs and such.

Finally, coming from a 4e perspective, wizards don't need to be weaker in combat than they are now, they're balanced pretty well with the other classes.

Personally I think the answer is to remove as much complexity as possible, but maybe the answer is more like reducing the use of ALL off-turn mechanics to once per round. You get one OA/Interrupt/whatever outside your turn, period. Then remove pretty much all the interrupt powers with a few minor exceptions like say Shield that are 'personal' or where there is a really strong argument that an effect/power is highly thematic and can't be done any other way. You'll still have OAs happening and now and then the odd interrupt, but if only say 1 or 2 PCs in a high level party have one each it is a LOT less of a problem.

MANY of the issues with 4e combat really are more issues of excess vs issues of bad core rules. Play at level 1, combats really go pretty quick and are not that hard to play through. If that would remain the baseline with even just a BIT more simplicity all the way up to epic the game would play far far better for most people I suspect.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Oh, I meant when you know your and the orcs' initiative. Even if the DM keeps those secret you may know they are between the fighter (who rolled X) and the ranger (who rolled X+2) etc.

Are you speaking from a 2e perspective? 'Cos we don't reroll initiative every round these days.

Is it a problem that every spell gets a chance to be interrupted? If the fighter is doing his job...

Actually, I had forgotten you only roll initiative once. Been playing Basic D&D lately. But it's still not necessarily metagaming. Wizard: "Those orcs are gonna be on me pretty quickly. Don't have time for a cone of cold, damnit. I better hit 'em with stinking cloud."

 

[Lanefan]

Are you speaking from a 2e perspective? 'Cos we don't reroll initiative every round these days.

No, but we should be.

Knowledge of the initiative order round after round leads to some ugly meta-gaming that on a real battlefield would be impossible.

Lan-"another for the rules-to-raise-from-the-dead thread"-efan