How often do you use Toughness?

[Marimmar]

We houseruled Toughness as well. In our campaign each time you take Toughness you get to roll another HD for the class you're at the time of taking the feat. You do not apply any modifiers to this roll and get at least 60% HP out of the roll, thus 3/4/5/6/7 HP minimum. This is as interesting for players as it is for low level NPCs. Last time I DMed the party faced Ftr2 soldiers with around 30 HP each.

~Marimmar

 

[Yeoman]

It sees some use in our campaigns, mostly people who feel they need a few extra hp or for guys who are going for the really high hp character.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

i like the NWN version, which gives +1 every level. That way, the feat retains a modicum of usefulness for all 20 levels.

And becomes just shy of useless for 1st-level mages, who are the guys who really need the existing feat.

I have no problem with introducing some other feat that does the thing you say, but Toughness has its niche as well.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I've never used toughness myself.

I have several players who have.

One DM gave all rogues and mages toughness free and all clerics, fighters, etc... endurance. An interesting twist.

 

[sithramir]

I definitely like the idea of making toughness allow you to go further into negative hps. I see a lot of house rules of Con being added to it so with 14 con you can go to neg 12. I think having toughness either allow you to live til -13 hps or perhaps allowing you to use your con bonus (-12 with 14 con) would be a very useful addition to it that wouldn't make it overpowerful but make it a viable choice for people. For people who use the con added to the -10 its not a big of a deal (or perhaps is) but this looks like a good house rule to me.

 

[Deadguy]

Originally posted by Dr_Rictus
And becomes just shy of useless for 1st-level mages, who are the guys who really need the existing feat.

I have no problem with introducing some other feat that does the thing you say, but Toughness has its niche as well.

Thr trouble with that argument though Doc, is that the first level Wizard is already so weak, even with Toughness, that a single hit puts them into neagtive territory anyway, and quite possibly kills them. Not getting hit is what a first level Wizard needs!

I tend to see D&D3e's solution to be to make 1st through 3rd level zip by as quickly as possible, to get them up to at least 4+2d4 hit points. As such, a scaling Toughness is probably actually more useful, rather than less.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've only ever seen it taken once, and that was a character heading towards a prestige class which needed it (Dwarven Defender?)

I houseruled it like someone else did - it increases the threshold against death by 3pts each time as well as the hp.

An interesting idea might be to add some additional feats in a chain to it, and gaining inspiration from d20modern might be useful - e.g.

Energy Resistance
Pre: toughness
Benefit: You gain resistance to one energy type equal to your CON modifier (if positive).
Special: This can be taken several times, it has to be for a different energy type each time (sonic, fire, electricity, acid, cold)

This puts it in the same vein as dodge. Not particularly exciting in itself, but opens the door to other, more interesting stuff.

Cheers

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Not getting hit is what a first level Wizard needs!

Not getting hit is good, but Toughness can almost double a 1st-level wizard's hit points (if he is so rash as to not have a good Constitution), which can easily take him from being a 1-hit fight to a 2-hit fight for many low-level encounters. With fights often only going a few rounds, that can actually be a big boost.

That said, you've got 10 hit points to go between being dropped and being dead, so the advantage is in some sense more in the fact that you get to stay up and participate in the game, rather than becoming an emergency medical case. Because of the extra ten hits, I do also sort of like the variant where Toughness adds both to your hit points and your "death's door" range (i.e., die at -13 instead of -10).

 

[Deadguy]

Originally posted by Dr_Rictus
That said, you've got 10 hit points to go between being dropped and being dead, so the advantage is in some sense more in the fact that you get to stay up and participate in the game, rather than becoming an emergency medical case. Because of the extra ten hits, I do also sort of like the variant where Toughness adds both to your hit points and your "death's door" range (i.e., die at -13 instead of -10).

It's certainly an interesting idea, and would make the Feat considerably more valuable to a wider range of characters.

I must confess that I prefer Earthdawn's approach to Hit Points. That game gives every character a number of hit points, based on Toughness, at First Circle (level), typically around 20 to unconsciousness and 30 to death. That way, even a first level character doesn't die straight away in combat. I was thinking about instituting something similar for D&D, but I can't decide how to apportion them.

 

[Shalimar]

The way that my group house-ruled toughness is this: Each time you take it you increase your Hit Die type to the next step, up to a maximum of 1D12 per level. So a wizard that takes it at first level starts with 6hp and everytime he advances in level he rolls 1d6. If he were to later later take it again, from then on he would roll 1D8 each level, if he were to go to Rogue he would roll 1D10 a level, if later he went with a level of Fighter he would still only roll 1D12.