D&D General How Often Should a PC Die in D&D 5e?

[CreamCloud0]

One could argue that LotR might have been a better story if Frodo had died at Weathertop and someone else then had to take up the ring quest.

Hmmm, I've got to disagree with you on that one, the impact that being the ringbearer has on frodo's psyche and if he can retain his presence of mind and not turn into gollum 2.0 is as much as if not greater narrative stakes than him dying in the first half hour and being one amongst a procession of corpses of people who failed to destroy the ring at Mt doom.

At least then the threat of protagonist death would have been followed through on, putting much greater tension into the rest of the story as the reader really doesn't know whether the protagonist(s) will survive or not.

LotR doesn't have a greek chorus claiming 'by this tale's end it's not a matter of if frodo will die but when', boromir died, gandalf died, did we really need frodo to die too just to hammer in 'wEll ANyOnE cAn DiE'?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Because life has penalties, and sometimes bad things with lasting, rules-relevant (from the game perspective) effects happen that you can't decide not to have happen.

That's what I'm playing elf game to get away from!

 

[pemerton]

I realise that D&D's combat resolution system is probably not as powerful, in its fictional scope, as either of the two RPGs that I've mentioned. But it's not so attenuated that things must be death or nothing.

As for defeat conditions other than death, those are obviously perfectly possible. Unfortunately mechanically there really aren’t such in 5e; unless you die, you’re fine next day. I think the game would benefit from having some gemeable longer duration drawbacks.

Then there of course are narrative setbacks, but I don’t think the game offers much advice on building such. Perhaps the new DMG has something?

There at least was a new optional rule where the characters do not die in combat but become defeated. However I don’t know if there is some advice about “what then?” Like if the whole party gets knocked unconscious by a hungry tyrannosaurus, pack of brain-eating zombies etc. it still seems to me that death would be a logical outcome even if the mechanic was removed from the combat system.

So, and contra my conjecture, are you saying that D&D's fictional scope really is that attenuated?

 

[dave2008]

As for defeat conditions other than death, those are obviously perfectly possible. Unfortunately mechanically there really aren’t such in 5e; unless you die, you’re fine next day. I think the game would benefit from having some gemeable longer duration drawbacks.

Then there of course are narrative setbacks, but I don’t think the game offers much advice on building such. Perhaps the new DMG has something?

There at least was a new optional rule where the characters do not die in combat but become defeated. However I don’t know if there is some advice about “what then?” Like if the whole party gets knocked unconscious by a hungry tyrannosaurus, pack of brain-eating zombies etc. it still seems to me that death would be a logical outcome even if the mechanic was removed from the combat system.

Well lingering injuries have been a part of the game since the 2014 DMG. We tried them out on critical hits, but my players found it debilitating / not fun so we dropped them.

 

[pemerton]

Except you can in a game of imagination. You can exclude whatever you want with your group.

Right!

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's what I'm playing elf game to get away from!

Fair enough (although I detest the term "elf game". Feels diminuative).

 

[CreamCloud0]

Fair enough (although I detest the term "elf game". Feels diminuative).

i feel like that's a bit of the point? in a well meaning 'take a step back, unwind for a moment and just remember this is only a game we're playing' way

 

[Vaalingrade]

Elf game is a way to refer to this game way too many people take waaaaaaa (a times10^10^10^50)y too seriously for the fact that we're playing pretend with books and dice.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

So, and contra my conjecture, are you saying that D&D's fictional scope really is that attenuated?

Fictional, no. But mechanical, unfortunately pretty much.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Well lingering injuries have been a part of the game since the 2014 DMG. We tried them out on critical hits, but my players found it debilitating / not fun so we dropped them.

I don't think getting them on criticals is a good idea. That's really not a defeat, it is just random. Getting such when you go to dying would work better, though IIRC, the effects were not very good. And I assume this is again one optional system that 5.5 just jettisoned instead of improving it?