How old does he look?

[Greenfield]

WB, by your logic, there's no such thing as an old common laborer. And there's no such thing as a PC who hits 10th level by the time he's 27.

Life experience, as in years lived, relates to experience points only by a coincidence of pronunciation: We use the same word for two very different concepts.

In D&D at least, level advancements are likely to occur every 6 to 8 level appropriate encounters. So people who have more challenging (i.e "level appropriate") encounters will go up in level faster. A Commoner, whose only "challenges" come when weather threatens his crops (a highly seasonal challenge) might go up three levels in a lifetime.

Looking at Lord of the Rings for an example, when Frodo, Samwise, Pippin and Merry returned to the Shire towards the end of the tale, the place was a mess and the locals couldn't seem to do anything about it. Now no more time had passed for the heroes than it had for the folk who stayed behind and tended their fields, but the heroes were clearly higher level than the folks at home. Even though they had been involved in very few actual battles, they had faced many challenges and had learned from the experience. Because of this, they were able to take charge and drive the trouble makers out, even facing down the outcast Wizard Sauroman.

And while we can say that that story isn't an RPG, the fact is that D&D was strongly inspired by that tale, particularly in the idea of heroes getting better at what they do (i.e. advancing in levels).

So, while it certainly takes time to gain Experience points, the mere passage of time isn't all it takes.

(Q: Do Elves, who aren't even considered as adults until they reach the century mark, throw any monkey wrenches into this theory of yours? Lot's of years, lots of time spent experiencing life, but no special advantage in terms of levels or Experience points.)

 

[Water Bob]

WB, by your logic, there's no such thing as an old common laborer. And there's no such thing as a PC who hits 10th level by the time he's 27.

Sure there is. The old common laborer is a Commoner class. They've got those in D&D, yes? It's not just a Conan RPG thing, I don't think (but not sure).

And, the second sentence you say above is also possible and covered in the OP.



BTW, it's not really my logic. I just interpolated some stuff. The definitions in the OP come straight out of the Conan RPG.

So people who have more challenging (i.e "level appropriate") encounters will go up in level faster.

That's covered in the OP, too.

 

[Water Bob]

(Q: Do Elves, who aren't even considered as adults until they reach the century mark, throw any monkey wrenches into this theory of yours? Lot's of years, lots of time spent experiencing life, but no special advantage in terms of levels or Experience points.)

The OP is directed at humans. I'm sure one could make a similar chart for NPC elves if one wanted.

BTW, it's not a "theory" of mine. As I said, it comes straight out of the Conan RPG (and I suggest in the OP that, if you wanted, you could use the idea with standard D&D). The level definitions are not my words but from the Core rulebook. The various examples are taken from the Conan Beastiary. All generic bad guys run in the 1-3 level range, or there abouts.

 

[kinem]

So the average old geezer could easily wipe the floor with a horde of young thugs?

 

[Oryan77]

Not according to my definitions above.

Nope, I checked with my wife and she said I'm definitely a level 10 Expert in bed. She must hand out XP faster than you do. I mentioned I was multiclassed right?

 

[Water Bob]

So the average old geezer could easily wipe the floor with a horde of young thugs?

That's not really fair...you could say the same for D&D without using what I propose above. Except for the optional stats that decline for age, a D&D character keeps getting more and more XP and higher and higher level, without much regard for age.

The d20 system should deal with old age better than it does.

 

[irdeggman]

PHB pg 109

You can choose or randomly generate your character’s age.

Let’s look at the starting ages for a human from the PHB. This for initial character generation so the assumption is that they are all 1st level characters (i.e., 0 XP)

Barbarian/rogue/sorcerer starting age is between 16 and 19 yrs

Bard/fighter/paladin/ranger is between 16 and 22

Cleric/druid/monk/wizard is between 17 and 27

Now let’s compare that to an elf.

Barbarian/rogue/sorcerer starting age is between 114 and 134
Cleric/druid/monk/wizard is between 120 and 170

So per the PHB a 16 year old and a 27 year old have the same character level if they are human. One is a barbarian and the other is a wizard.

And a 1st level character can be between the ages of 16 and 170 (human barbarian and elf wizard). And a ½ orc starts at 1 year less than does a human so the range for PHB races at 1st level is 15 to 170 (1/2 orc barbarian and elf wizard).

If a character picks up a template that removes aging (like an undead) then how would it get handled?

PHB pg 58

Experience points (XP) measure how much your character has learned and how much he or she has grown in personal power. Your character earns XP by defeating monsters and other opponents. The DM assigns XP to the characters at the end of each adventure based on what they have accomplished. Characters accumulate XP from one adventure to another. When a character earns enough XP, he or she attains a new character level (see Table 3–2: Experience and Level-Dependent Benefits, page 22).

Character level is defined by experience point numbers.


Experience is awarded in accordance with the DMG for encounters. The core D&D system is not designed to award xp for anything other than combat type systems. It takes some creativity to come up with CR for non-combat "encounters".

A character who stays at home for 5 years does not earn xp at the rate as a does one who gets into bar fights everynight based on the DMG.

Note that the 3.X experience system is for all characters and that there is no such thing as xp for a class (unlike 2nd ed that had a whole system that covered individual classes).

So a character that earns 1000 xp can advance to 2nd level (and pick any class he wants to). The core rules do not require a character to "work at a class" before gaining levels in it. Per teh RAW it is possible for a character to swith to wizard once they gain a level and gain all of the class benefits at once. So a 2nd level character - can start as a barbarian and then once he gained 1000 xp theygain a level in wizard and suddenly become "literate".

A commoner gains xp for the exact same things as does a wizard.

Also there is no xp awarded for creating anything. In 2nd ed wizards gained xp for creating magic items in 3.X RAW they actually lose xp.

I know the rules don't pass the commmon sense test, but they were never designed to.

The Conan game seems to have inserted a lot of heavy modification to the D&D system, based on all of your other posts and threads. I would almost say it has changed the core system drastically in an attempt to capture the literary theme of the Conan books.

From the FAQ

Are monsters’ ability scores adjusted as they age (like
PC races)?

The rules include no information on age categories for creatures other than the PC races listed in various books, so the Sage concludes that ability score adjustments by age (such as those described on Table 6–5: Aging Effects, in the PH) apply only to those races for which they’re listed. If a DM wanted to create age categories for other creatures, the Sage advises using existing numbers as a guideline.

Does a human who becomes an undead apply the ability score adjustments as he ages?

The Sage recommends that aging effects not be applied to a PC who becomes undead. It seems unreasonable that an undead’s physical ability scores should change based on the original race’s lifespan (why should a dwarf vampire stay strong longer than a half-orc vampire?).
Similarly, applying adjustments to mental ability scores seems to create more problems than it’s worth. Should a skeleton that’s been dead for 200 years be wiser than one that was just created? If a long-dead ghost gets smarter with age, why doesn’t a long-dead mummy? That said, if a DM wanted to apply aging effects to ability scores for undead PCs, it’s not terribly unbalancing. He should just be prepared to answer a lot of corner-case questions—and most DMs will find it more hassle than it’s worth.

 

[kinem]

That's not really fair...you could say the same for D&D without using what I propose above. Except for the optional stats that decline for age, a D&D character keeps getting more and more XP and higher and higher level, without much regard for age.

The d20 system should deal with old age better than it does.

There should be rules for 'getting out of practice' (losing xp?), but your system is absolutely horrible. Most NPCs are 1st level - that's the way it's always been. Most 80 year olds are 1st level. Period.

 

[Water Bob]

I know the rules don't pass the commmon sense test, but they were never designed to.

The Conan game seems to have inserted a lot of heavy modification to the D&D system, based on all of your other posts and threads. I would almost say it has changed the core system drastically in an attempt to capture the literary theme of the Conan books.

Yes, and no. There are a lot of differences between the games. D&D is high magic. Conan is low magic. And, the Conan magic system is completely changed (it's not Vancian at all.)

The Conan game is grittier than D&D: Weapon do more damage. Massive Damage is set at 20 points of damage.

The Conan game has a level ceiling of level 20. That makes the game world static--meaning that a level actually means something and is less abstract than in D&D. D&D, iirc, doesn't have a level cap, and levels are looked at as "scaleable", making it a bit harder to set definitions for levels.

In Conan, armor doesn't make a target harder to hit. The armor absorbs damage.

Conan is a 90% human universe.

The Conan GM has 100% control over player experience. The D&D GM has indirect control over experience by limiting monsters fought, treasure found, etc.

And so on....




But, there is a lot of cross-over with the Conan game, as well.

Conan is based on 3.5 E D&D, and therefore 90% of its rules are exactly the same, taken word for word from the D&D source.


So, is the core system changed drastically?

That depends on your point of view, I would say. There enough different and enough the same to make either argument strong.

There should be rules for 'getting out of practice' (losing xp?), but your system is absolutely horrible. Most NPCs are 1st level - that's the way it's always been. Most 80 year olds are 1st level. Period.

I agree that there should be rules for "getting out of practice" and "getting older". But, "my system" really isn't "absolutely horrible". First, it's not "my system". It's the Core Conan RPG game.

Second, as far as the "Most 80 year olds are 1st level," I would say that depends on what edition of the game you are looking at. Dragonlance uses a very similiar definitions to what I say in the OP (1E AD&D version). It's been a long time, but I think Raistlin was something like 3rd level when he passed the Test to become a mage, and Fistandauntilus (sp?), one of the greatest mages of Krynn's history, was something like 15th level....which exactly falls in line with what I declare above.








To those of you who think the system presented above is as kinem exclaims "absolutely awful", then simply....don't use it.

I know it's a good system and fits the Conan RPG well (from which it was interpolated based on Conan RPG character examples and official level definitions).

If you can get some use out of it, then great. If you absolutely hate it, then, well, OK, don't use it.

Simple as that.

 

[Greenfield]

Sure there is. The old common laborer is a Commoner class. They've got those in D&D, yes? It's not just a Conan RPG thing, I don't think (but not sure).

I'm in a quandry, WB. I know that you aren't stupid, that you know the difference between "common laborer" (as opposed to skilled labor) and Commoner as a class.

So I'll simply ask again: Is there such a thing as and old ditch digger in your games? Someone with years behind them, but still relegated to basic unskilled labor?

Is there such a thing as a young craftsman? You know, someone who has worked hard, trained hard (i.e. challenged themselves in life and in their profession), and thus learned and excelled in their craft?

Are there young adventurers in your game world, people of level yet still in their 20s?

If not, then it's silly to work hard and take risks in pursuit of lofty goals. Just sit on your ass, safe at home, and greatness will come to you anyway purely by virtue of years.

<EDIT>I'd like to amend this slightly. WB, I wasn't calling you stupid, and I'm sorry if it seemed as if I was. It just seemed as if you were intentionally misunderstanding the question.</EDIT>