How popular are RPGs today compared to the 80s?

[Col_Pladoh]

That's how I remember it - the years 1981 to 1983 in particular. People who had little interest in the game itself were playing it because it was the popular thing to do. That was when the tie-in toys and a kid's cartoon series were launched, and they even included the scene of kids playing it in the film E.T. I

WOTC is probably right if you go by total dollars spent, and the selling more copies of any book other than possibly the Player's Handbook, as many of the players back then just played the game but didn't buy any of the books (only the DM needed to know that much about it.)

Just to say that the sales of all the core rules books were in the hundreds of thousands, and that the MM was right up there with the PHB, the DMG sold about 7% of the numbers that PHB made. Frankly, I am very doubtful that 3E core rules books sold as many copies as did OAD&D. As has been noted, OAD&D got all manner of mass media attention and was a considerable fad from 1981-83. In that period the DRAGON Magazine was selling around 500,000 copies an issue and had a pass-around factor of a bit over 4.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Col_Pladoh]

that was Tunnels & Trolls.


you are thinking of the Taps reference.

Close, but no cigar! I happened to see the original script, for TSR was asked for permission to name D&D as the game. That I refused because there was money on the table, and it appeared it was connected to the game being played. When I asked the studio for clarification, they refused further information, so permission was denied. Frankly, I doubt very much if the screen writer involved had any inkling of the T&T game.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[MerricB]

Thanks, Gary! Nice to see that you can post at ENworld again!

(My second review of Necropolis, this time for the 3rdedition.org site, should be getting posted within a few days.)

Cheers!

 

[Col_Pladoh]

This from Ryan Dancey:

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Full article here: http://www.enworld.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=43&page=1

That being the case, it is selling as well as OAD&D, for 2E sold at c. 50% of what the original AD&D books did.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Heh - I love reading Ryan's rants. Right or wrong, they're fun - and usually filled with info.

Comparatively, there are definitely more people gaming long-term now than then. Even back in TSR's heyday, I had ONE regular player. ONE. The rest were one-shots, and the majority of my time was indeed spent using RPG's as reading material. It's why I knew the rules so darned well back then - able to quote page and section of the DMG when someone needed a rule.

Hey, Henry!

Back in the 70s and early 80s I could easily get 20 players if desired--sometimes even if not desired. Emperical evidence is not too reliable, eh?

Frankly, I do not believe that the audience now is anywhere as large as it was in 1981-83. TSR's estimates then places it at c. 5 million in North America.

No matter, that. Just take a look at convention attendees now. compare the age to that of the 1980s. There are far fewer young players than there were then. and what is being done to attract young persons to paper RPGing? Nary a thing I can see. Someone mentioned garnering newbies via electronic games--MMPs. That's not an effective recruiting means, as there's no reason to go to in-person play when the computer is there whenever one wants to play--no DM needed, no players to round up, instant gratification albeit of far less satisfying sort than that possible in a group experience.

While I don't believe that the paper RPG is dying, I see no evidence of it growing. The audience that WotC sells to is that which is established, any growth likely doing no more than making up fro attrition, and the new recruits being brought in by existing gamers, nit through advertising and promotion through introductory material sold in mass-market outlets. the latter seemed to be WotC's plan before Hasbro came into the picture. Broad advertising, beginners sets, and retail shops are the best means of bringing in new blood.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Umbran]

Back in the 70s and early 80s I could easily get 20 players if desired--sometimes even if not desired. Emperical evidence is not too reliable, eh?

Yeah, but let's face it. You are you. Big Man In Gaming. The rest of us... aren't

No matter, that. Just take a look at convention attendees now. compare the age to that of the 1980s.

As you do that, though, compare the costs of travel, hotels, admission, food, etc, in each era to the disposable income of young folks in that era. If cons are relatively more expensive than they used to be, this won't be a good measure.

 

[Silver Moon]

back then i had 14 players. today, i have....none.

Our group peaked in 1984 with 14 active players....we've had between 6 and 9 for most of the past decade....today we only have 6 regulars, but it is still a great game (and I honestly doubt I still have the energy to DM 14 at once - ah, to be young again!)

 

[Henry]

Hi, Gary! Glad to hear from you!

You are right, anecdotal evidence is worth very little -- your experiences in the "D&D heartlands" as it were, versus mine in the Bible Belt ran quite differently. What I would be interested in, were such a thing were ever available, is the size of "networked" gamers now versus the early 80's, whether the internet makes a big difference in the network size now versus then, because the number of dedicated gamers is roughly equivalent to the number of those who participating in networking - to me, this stands to reason, because the more serious you are about your hobby, the more time you invest.

I know for sure that in my area, I know far more gamers now than then - and the ones I know I keep in touch. My experience runs exactly opposite to Diaglo's: Back then, I knew all of one other solid gamer; now, I have had groups ranging upwards of 13 people at the same game! My personal record for a 3E group is around 9 at the table.

Maybe we'll never know for certain - but based on sales figures alone, we know that in three short years, WotC attained numbers not seen in 20 years. In that score, good for them. I am a firm believer in that if you grow the customer base, all the smaller companies benefit by default, because a Gaming Hobbyist is usually a gamer for life, and migrates around to other systems as he looks for new products.

 

[diaglo]

Close, but no cigar! I happened to see the original script, for TSR was asked for permission to name D&D as the game. That I refused because there was money on the table, and it appeared it was connected to the game being played. When I asked the studio for clarification, they refused further information, so permission was denied. Frankly, I doubt very much if the screen writer involved had any inkling of the T&T game.

Cheers,
Gary

go get the 20th anniversary DVD.

the child actors actually played D&D.

but in the movie it was Tunnels & Trolls. take a close look at the box on the table.

edit: i think it was at a suggestion from one of the kids.

 

[diaglo]

Yeah, but let's face it. You are you. Big Man In Gaming. The rest of us... aren't

i wasn't a BMiG. and i had no problems finding gamers back then. i had 14 regulars in my group. but i also started clubs at my school. and easily gamed with many, many different people. ~ 125 or so.