How powerful is abilty SA things usually immune to SA?

[darthkilmor]

In a game with only the core rules and maybe a few supplements, the ability to SA undead or similar creatures is almost broken. In a game that corporates all WotC published material, it is almost a necessity (to keep up with some of your companions).

Its a high-magic/power ptolus game, the players don't have any real front-line fighter type though, and the lack of ability to SA is starting to become a real kick in the teeth for them(not that I mind too much). But the ability to SA more stuff I think isn't too out of line, they'd certainly appreciate it, and its something else to drain some gp off them.

So what would you all value a magic item that allows SA vs...(these are my gut what-I'd-pay/utility-of-ability guesses)
Undead: 35K
Swarms: 25k
Constructs: 30K
Plants:10k
Oozes:15k
Elementals:20k

Thoughts?

 

[theredrobedwizard]

The Penetrating Strike alternate class feature from Dungeonscape allows you to sneak attack against anything normally immune to them, albeit at half normal dice. It's like Death's Ruin, except instead of working against only undead, it works against anything normally immune to Sneak Attack.

There is a weapon augment crystal in the Magic Item Compendium that allows sneak attacks (and critical hits) versus Undead (in addition to dealing +1d6 extra damage and functioning as a Ghost Touch weapon), it requires being attached to a +3 weapon, and costs 10,000gp.

-TRRW

 

[darthkilmor]

So what would you all value a magic item that allows SA vs...(these are my gut what-I'd-pay/utility-of-ability guesses)
Undead: 35K
Swarms: 25k
Constructs: 30K
Plants:10k
Oozes:15k
Elementals:20k

Thoughts?

<bump>. Anyone? overpriced? underpriced?

 

[akbearfoot]

Those prices seem too high to me.

Also I dont think rogues(or anyone else) should be able to sneak attack swarms...ever. That just doesent make any sense, lol. Except maybe creatures with the trample or crush ability should be able to squash entire swarms....Or people with +5 Flyswatters of doom.


1 Creature type...10-15kish. You can bet its gonna be undead or constructs that a player picks, since those are by far the most common non-crit enemies in most games.

Or make a +2 weapon enhancment bonus that allows 1/2 sneak attack dice against creatures normally immune...minimum cost 18k for a +1 weapon. It's not cheap, but will let the rogue deal considerably more damage in fights if he has 1 of these as a backup weapon. Plus it will limit weapon stacking absurdities ie. him getting his +2 flaming frost shock acidic weapon and also getting a bunch of sneak attack dice on top of it for next to no cost.

I think general sneak attack immunity(and most immunities) are bad game design in general, since they inevitably lead us to discussions on how to get around the immunity....then the undead takes the feat to be immune to special undead sneak attack...the the rogue takes the feat to get past undead sneak attack immune...rinse repeat.

But I agree with the above poster that rogues sorta need to be thrown a bone in order to stay competative if all those other sources are available....If course, if Bo9S is available, you should just play a swordsage with shadow hand maneuvers...they are way cooler. Shadow Garrote FTW!

 

[Deset Gled]

Undead: 35K
Swarms: 25k
Constructs: 30K
Plants:10k
Oozes:15k
Elementals:20k

Thoughts?

Sounds decent to me for a continuously active item. Except for the swarm one. Sneak attacking a swarm just doesn't make sense to me. You could probably lower the cost by a lot if you make the item command word activated with a time limitation.

Also, I would expect the price of the construct version to be closer to 15K. A golembane scarab is much cheaper and more effective is many scenarios.

 

[MarkB]

I think it's PHB2.

PHB2 has a different variant, Disruptive Attack, which allows you to reduce a target's AC instead of inflicting Sneak Attack damage. The ability works against any target, even those normally immune to Sneak Attacks.

It is taken at 4th level, in place of Uncanny Dodge.

 

[AnonymousOne]

The Penetrating Strike alternate class feature from Dungeonscape allows you to sneak attack against anything normally immune to them, albeit at half normal dice. It's like Death's Ruin, except instead of working against only undead, it works against anything normally immune to Sneak Attack.

-TRRW

Thank you RedRobed!