D&D 5E How Should 5E Magic Work?

How would you like to see the magic mechanic working in 5E?

  • Vancian

    Votes: 34 42.5%
  • Magic Point

    Votes: 11 13.8%
  • Powers

    Votes: 29 36.3%
  • I have no preference.

    Votes: 6 7.5%

SKyOdin

First Post
No need to strictly limit ourselves to what has come before in terms of exact mechanics. There are a lot more options that jut those three.

I understand why Vancian spell-casting is so popular for D&D. To a certain a level, it is much easier to track than point-based systems, since you just need to remember which spells you have cast already that day. However, there are a few key problems with it that need to be addressed. While it is pretty easy to track at low levels, when you have only a few spells, if becomes significantly harder to track at higher levels when a Wizard can memorize upwards of four dozen spells from a list of hundreds of spells. There is also the problem that magic spells don't scale well: a level 3 spell starts out as a rare and powerful spell, but eventually becomes a relatively weak and common one.

I think a heavily modified Vancian system that addresses some of these issues would work great for D&D. For one, it would be nice to be able to scale magic spells better. What if you could prepare a level 1 spell like magic missile in a level 6 slot, and it be as strong as any other level 6 spell? 3E metamagic tried to achieve that, but was limited by its "one-size-fits-all" feat approach. What if spells had scalable parameters built into the spell description itself, based on spell level? Alternatively, we could change the spell slot system from a set of ever raising tiers of spells to a simpler Minor, Lesser, Greater (all three of which are prepared daily) scheme, where spells are inherently designed to scale with level better. In this system, a spell like Fireball would always be a Lesser spell, but would do more damage and have a bigger area of effect at higher level. New spells would still be unlocked as the Wizard goes up in level. That way, spells meant to be used less often won't eventually become readily available at higher levels, and the Wizard class complexity would remain reasonably manageable as character level grows.
 

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Incenjucar

Legend
I'm all for scalable powers. Powers should have a minimum level and advance from there whenever possible, sometimes even in branching paths (when it's sane to do so). 4E did it first with at-wills and some powers-almost-like-earlier-powers, then themes, and finally with the skald, and I use them exclusively in the classes I build.

Whenever possible, a player should be able to choose for their character to be a souped-up version of their level 1 self at later levels, because sometimes you can make the exact character you want from XP 1.

--

That all said, Vancian wizards will exist. That's just a guarantee. We just don't need to limit ourselves to that.
 

mlund

First Post
I don't see why the "Powers" option includes At-Will, Daily, Ritual, and excludes Encounters.

Personally, I want At-Will Spells, Encounter Spells, and Rituals - as well as the ability to burn Healing Surges / Hit Points to over-cast your normal limits in an Encounter.

- Marty Lund
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Magical and non-magical character abilities should utilize the same mechanics and level progressions. Magic should be distinguished by what it does, rather than the mechanics it uses to do it. Keep the game consistent and balanced.
 

Bobbum Man

Banned
Banned
Maybe there's a better way altogether that is neither vancian, AEDU or point based.

I'm not sure what I want in terms of resource management for special fx, but I know that I don't want the bookkeeping nightmare of having 8 different magic systems. Especially if I have to use those rules to make NPC's.

I can tell you that I want to see an end to generalist casters. I would prefer that specialist casters are the norm.

I can tell you that magic-users had better have some sort of at-will abilities. No more casting your single light spell and reaching for the crossbow. That was one thing that 4E got right.
 

Aramax

First Post
Yikes, you would want three different ways to cast fireball? That sounds like a bookkeeping nightmare. (Inevitably, someone is going to want to multiclass and play a Wizard/Sorcerer/Warlock. :) )

No need to strictly limit ourselves to what has come before in terms of exact mechanics. There are a lot more options that jut those three.

I understand why Vancian spell-casting is so popular for D&D. To a certain a level, it is much easier to track than point-based systems, since you just need to remember which spells you have cast already that day. However, there are a few key problems with it that need to be addressed. While it is pretty easy to track at low levels, when you have only a few spells, if becomes significantly harder to track at higher levels when a Wizard can memorize upwards of four dozen spells from a list of hundreds of spells. There is also the problem that magic spells don't scale well: a level 3 spell starts out as a rare and powerful spell, but eventually becomes a relatively weak and common one.

I think a heavily modified Vancian system that addresses some of these issues would work great for D&D. For one, it would be nice to be able to scale magic spells better. What if you could prepare a level 1 spell like magic missile in a level 6 slot, and it be as strong as any other level 6 spell? 3E metamagic tried to achieve that, but was limited by its "one-size-fits-all" feat approach. What if spells had scalable parameters built into the spell description itself, based on spell level? Alternatively, we could change the spell slot system from a set of ever raising tiers of spells to a simpler Minor, Lesser, Greater (all three of which are prepared daily) scheme, where spells are inherently designed to scale with level better. In this system, a spell like Fireball would always be a Lesser spell, but would do more damage and have a bigger area of effect at higher level. New spells would still be unlocked as the Wizard goes up in level. That way, spells meant to be used less often won't eventually become readily available at higher levels, and the Wizard class complexity would remain reasonably manageable as character level grows.
This is one of those great ideas on the drawing room but I think when presented in the real world would double the page count needed for spells(and I need those pages for my 3 magic systems ;) )
 



billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
I voted Vancian, but I'm reasonably flexible on that as long as the scope of magic isn't gimped to keep martial abilities in the same scope. And I'm not referring just to damage or the ability to neutralize enemies. I'm talking about the open-endedness of magic when it comes to manipulating reality.
 

Dragonblade

Adventurer
Ideally I want multiple magic using classes, each with their own unique yet balanced sub-system that doesn't overshadow non-casting classes.

I want all classes to have some at-will magic, so even if there are Vancian wizards they never have to resort to a crossbow.

I also prefer non-charged items. I prefer wands that mages use more like swords. Implements that make them better casters, not like guns where they fire off a preset number of "loaded" spells and then it crumbles to dust. But I have no problem if both types co-exist.
 

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