How the XP tables work (Forked thread: Consumable item pricing)

[James McMurray]

Here ya go folks. I'm not as mysterious as Dracorat. If the mods don't like it, they're free to delete it.

I'm not seeing what he's seeing, especially in regards to delta 2, which has the illusion of regularity but jumps all over the place (levels 12, 13, 22, and 23 destroy any chance of a pattern).

Level	XP	Delta	Delta 2
1	0		
2	1,000	1,000	
3	2,250	1,250	250
4	3,750	1,500	250
5	5,500	1,750	250
6	7,500	2,000	250
7	10,000	2,500	500
8	13,000	3,000	500
9	16,500	3,500	500
10	20,500	4,000	500
11	26,000	5,500	1,500
12	32,000	6,000	500
13	39,000	7,000	1,000
14	47,000	8,000	1,000
15	57,000	10,000	2,000
16	69,000	12,000	2,000
17	83,000	14,000	2,000
18	99,000	16,000	2,000
19	119,000	20,000	4,000
20	143,000	24,000	4,000
21	175,000	32,000	8,000
22	210,000	35,000	3,000
23	255,000	45,000	10,000
24	310,000	55,000	10,000
25	375,000	65,000	10,000
26	450,000	75,000	10,000
27	550,000	100,000	25,000
28	675,000	125,000	25,000
29	825,000	150,000	25,000
30	1,000,000	175,000	25,000

 

[CapnZapp]

Thanks (Both Dracorat and McMurray)!

The Delta 2 regularity is there. It's just obscured by the "tier humps".

Move 500 from level 11 to 12, and you'll see levels 11-14 have the same value.

At level 21, 1000 points need to be moved to level 22. That still leaves 3000 points, but this was also discussed: without it, the XP sums for the highest levels would lack 3000, and I can definitely understand why a level 30 character does not need 997000 xp

 

[Dracorat]

I'm not seeing what he's seeing, especially in regards to delta 2, which has the illusion of regularity but jumps all over the place (levels 12, 13, 22, and 23 destroy any chance of a pattern).

Here's what I'm seeing...

Every four numbers in Delta2 are the same.

Until you reach Epic, they double. At Epic, they go up by a factor of 2.5 instead of 2.0.

There are the two notable exceptions.

In the first, levels 11 to 14, if you add 11 and 12 and then split it back up 50/50 you'll see it would have continued the progression fine (the result would be the same as 13 and 14)

In 19-22, they made 21 too large by almost double, if you move the 1000 back to 22 in order to continue that progression.

Those are the two spots they manually "edited" the progress, if you will. All the rest follows a defined pattern. A very defined pattern.

 

[Dracorat]

Thanks (Both Dracorat and McMurray)!

The Delta 2 regularity is there. It's just obscured by the "tier humps".

Move 500 from level 11 to 12, and you'll see levels 11-14 have the same value.

At level 21, 1000 points need to be moved to level 22. That still leaves 3000 points, but this was also discussed: without it, the XP sums for the highest levels would lack 3000, and I can definitely understand why a level 30 character does not need 997000 xp

What I said, but probably clearer.

I lack a basic ability to type/speak on such simple terms. It's part of my personality I think.

Sorry for any who take that offensively. I mean it only in the most sincere terms.

 

[James McMurray]

Right, like I said. The semblance of a pattern is there, but no pattern (currently) exists. Whether they messed up, consciously changed it (my assumption), or lucked into something pattern-like doesn't change the fact that there are irregularities which destroy any chance of it being usable for formulae, which is where the XP discussion started.

 

[Dracorat]

It'd be hard to make that in to an Excel macro, sure, but I could easily write that in to a pattern in a regular programming language now that the inner workings are revealed - and using a IF to make an exception for four lines.

If the progression were continued, we would only have to *not* make such exceptions and one could ideally take the chart to any level range they want and still be within the mechanics of the game.

 

[Truename]

Thanks (Both Dracorat and McMurray)!

The Delta 2 regularity is there. It's just obscured by the "tier humps".

Move 500 from level 11 to 12, and you'll see levels 11-14 have the same value.

At level 21, 1000 points need to be moved to level 22. That still leaves 3000 points, but this was also discussed: without it, the XP sums for the highest levels would lack 3000, and I can definitely understand why a level 30 character does not need 997000 xp

Okay, now I see it. (Thanks, CapnZapp.) Dracorat's right--this is a simpler explanation than mine, which requires obscure rounding rules as well as special cases in the monster XP table.

My spreadsheet now looks like this:

Column A: "level"
B: "Table": experience point data
C: "Delta": =B3-B2
D: "Delta2": =C4-C3
E: "Tier hump": "500" at level 11, "4000" at level 21
F: "Adjusted Delta 2": =IF(E4,D4-E4,IF(E3,D4+E3,D4))

With the two tier hump adjustments, it's quite regular, except for level 22. It's not perfect, but it's getting closer.

 

[Dracorat]

Glad to help. Sorry you thought I was attacking you. I never meant it as such.

 

[Truename]

My spreadsheet now looks like this:

Column A: "level"
B: "Table": experience point data
C: "Delta": =B3-B2
D: "Delta2": =C4-C3
E: "Tier hump": "500" at level 11, "4000" at level 21
F: "Adjusted Delta 2": =IF(E4,D4-E4,IF(E3,D4+E3,D4))

And now I've got a formula for column E: =D2*NOT(MOD(A3-1,10))

With this, everything's accounted for except for level 22.

(E and F are a bit of a hack, so if anyone can improve them, please do.)

 

[Truename]

So now I'm wondering... since the XP table is actually pretty regular, why is the monster table so flippin' wierd? It's regular, but in a completely different way, with its own weird exceptions.

Heroic tier: advance level = 10 encounters
(Level 10: advance level = 11 encounters)

Paragon tier: advance level = 10 encounters
(Level 20: advance level = 11.42 encounters)

And then the epic tier is screwy.
Level 21: 10.94 encounters
Level 22: 10.84
Level 23: 10.78
Level 24: 10.74
Level 25: 10.71
Level 26: 11.11
Level 27: 11.36
Level 28: 11.53
Level 29: 11.67