How to address racism in a fantasy setting without it dragging down the game?

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I’ve always found the line between “beings who can be good” and “beings who cannot be good” pretty simple. Fiends are elemental evil. They embody it. They aren’t even really creatures, they’re aspects of the alignment Lawful Evil.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
Humans - Alignment. Humans tend toward no particular alignment. The best and the worst are found among them.

Gnomes - Alignment. Gnomes are most often good.

This is consistent with the traditional presentation over time - gnomes are generally Good aligned, humans average out to Neutral.
Granted. But show me the player who will say that it's more okay, or less racist, to slaughter humans than it is to slaughter gnomes.

That sounds both too preachy and possibly comic relief to be honest.
Right. Then. Well, good luck!
 

S'mon

Legend
I wonderd how you could bring this up in a game, not as a central theme but more of a side story like a church or organization which fights for complete equality or similar goals, without it being disruptive, unfun or comical as being allowed to kill certain things and take their stuff without reprecussions is kinda the central theme in many RPGs.

IMCs I often see outreach efforts to the designated 'bad guy' races, my son's PC Sir Bravery teaching the goblins to be nice after freeing them from hobgoblin oppression, or last night Vethra Saursane claiming rulership of a band of Beastmen in my Primeval Thule game. Just treat everyone as thinking individuals with their own goals and you can have eg orcs & dwarves teaming up to fight the undead invasion.
 

In my pirate campaign, I have a country called Kturgia, who are known for their ruthless pirates. The country that the players are in, is at war with Kturgia. So the locals all really hate Kturgians with good reason. And to convey to my players how much they dislike Kturgians in a humorous way, the cheapest most disgusting drink at a bar is known as Kturgian Mouthwash. Also less humorous, putting Kturgian prisoners to work as slave labor is commonly accepted. But I like throwing in some moral questions on purpose. Sure, these guys are the enemy, and some of their pirates are incredibly cruel. But does this justify slavery?

Slavery was a thing during the age of sail, and although my setting is entirely fictitious, I felt like I had to include it for a more accurate depiction of the time.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
In my pirate campaign, I have a country called Kturgia, who are known for their ruthless pirates. The country that the players are in, is at war with Kturgia. So the locals all really hate Kturgians with good reason. And to convey to my players how much they dislike Kturgians in a humorous way, the cheapest most disgusting drink at a bar is known as Kturgian Mouthwash. Also less humorous, putting Kturgian prisoners to work as slave labor is commonly accepted. But I like throwing in some moral questions on purpose. Sure, these guys are the enemy, and some of their pirates are incredibly cruel. But does this justify slavery?

Slavery was a thing during the age of sail, and although my setting is entirely fictitious, I felt like I had to include it for a more accurate depiction of the time.

Slavery was basically the go to with PoWs before they signed things like the Geneva convention. In some cases though survivors on the losing side could mix in with the locals though.

Racism in game doesn't usually enhance it even with fantasy races. I put a lot if grey in mine. For example I have two blue dragons brother and sister.

They're both greedy and evil but ones a bit erm lazier than the other. One shakes the PCs down for tribute the others more content if they offer it.

Neither one is rampaging around. If you can get 100gp a year for 800 years or whatever that's not a bad hoard. 2gp a week leave us alone Mr Dragon.

It's more if monster type races want to interact normally in normal society and yes sometimes humans will be the monsters. I sometimes call humans big uglies coming from Goblins, Kobolds etc.

Hobgoblins are often perfectly rational as well. They're about as evil as say Rome. Not nice but you can deal with them.

Short term deals can be cut, Giants can be paid off to do jobs but the townsfolk don't really want the Giants around all the time.
 
Last edited:

The belief system will need to seem plausible and believable. Either you will need to have a setting where everything is biologically and mythologically similar enough to humanity that it's plausible to suggest nothing is born evil and anything raised in a different culture could adopt the viewpoints of that culture - in which case you'll need to probably get rid of things like mind flayers, vampires, and demons. Or else, you'll need to have a setting where you have already established a completely different mythos behind pretty much everything. For example, you'll probably need to rid yourself of the various different types of dragons and of traditional D&D origin stories for dragons. And you'll probably need to come up with some sort of reason why dragons and other races war against each other other than that dragons are greedy, evil, engines of destruction that incarnate the violence of the natural world. For example, if you have dragons with Tolkien's Middle Earth back story, then it is literally nonsense to talk about dragons not being evil, or to act as if you are being moral by giving a worm the benefit of the doubt and a chance to redeem itself.

For an example of this, in some of the settings that I've run games in, I use fantastical life-cycles for non-human creatures.

Goblins do not have children, they spontaneously come into being, fully formed and with all of their 'adult sensibilities' intact. Now, goblins in this setting aren't evil, per se, but they are a disruptive influence (always chaotic).

Orc children are not sapient. They are, in fact, indistinguishable from boars, and boars are indistinguishable from juvenile orcs. Some time after a boar reaches adulthood, if it is to be an orc, the blessing of Gruumsh (curse of Gruumsh?) takes affect and they form a Chrysalis (usually in a dark, warm place) from which an Orc emerges. Again, it is a fully formed adult at this point, with knowledge, language, and opinions about stuff.

Dwarves are not born. Once per generation, a Craftsdwarf will be taken by a fey mood, wherein they take their tools and delve deep into the heart of the mountainhome, to where the living rock may be found. There, they carve out the next generation of dwarves, giving their life in a frenzy of creation that grants life and flesh to the otherwise inert stone. These dwarves know their names and jobs, have likes and dislikes, and have an instinctive desire to work toward the prosperity of the community.

And so on...
 

Celebrim

Legend
For an example of this, in some of the settings that I've run games in, I use fantastical life-cycles for non-human creatures.

Cool.

The point that I'm trying to make is that within your societies, you need rules that makes sense for establishing what a "person" is. And further, that these fantasy societies, because they are animistic societies where every cow and tree is in some sense an aware and thinking being, they are going to like animistic societies have developed complex graduations of "personness" and various degrees of "person rights" depending on the order of being they are dealing with. Trees are going to have "tree rights". Cows are going to have "cow rights". When a woodcutter cuts down a tree, he's going to need to have a good reason, and he's going to be required to explain to the tree that now is the time, that his family needs wood, but that he promises to be a good caretaker of trees and ensure the tree has many offsprings and cousins. The rancher when he slaughters a cow is going to operate in the same manner, and so is the hunter that shoots the deer.

Everyone is familiar with the Declaration of Independence, and in particular the line that goes, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights." It may have been a bit of bravado to declare the self-evidence of that in the real world, but in a fantasy world it really is self-evident that everything is endowed by their creator with certain rights. The question then becomes, who is that creator, do you respect their wishes, and what are those rights if you do?

If everything has the same creator, and was created equal, then you have to respect them equally no matter what they look like - elves, dwarves, gnomes, kobolds, gnolls, goblins, bullywugs, doesn't matter. That makes perfect sense. The creator (maybe?) says, "I created you all equal, no treat each other that way. Respect the rights and dignity that I have granted you." If your campaign world is set up that way, or if you have some sort of equivalent creations (all the races were born from the spilled blood of the gods during some primordial war, all the races sprouted from the pollen that flowed from the tree of life, or whatever) then an organization advocating for equal, fair, and just treatment toward everyone in a group of peers makes perfect sense. It's a philosophy with real intellectual heft to it and it's application is, perhaps difficult at times, but in theory pretty straight forward.

On the other hand though, the default D&D setting does not have equivalent creations. Gnolls for example are the progeny of some sort of a single demon lord, and exist to further that demon lords interests. They are fancy puppets or AI created by a literally demonic designer. Do you really need to respect that designers wishes, and respect the rights that designer bestowed on his creation? It really doesn't make much sense to unthinkingly say, "Yes!" to that proposition. Maybe occasionally one gnoll goes rogue due to a system error, and you treat that gnoll differently, but in general "gnoll rights" are something you don't have to respect and you respect that one rogue gnoll precisely because they aren't really a true gnoll anymore.

Sentience simply can't be the sole guide (or soul guide?) in an animistic setting. And heck, it's only the sole guide now in the real world because we only have one sentient species to extend friendship toward. (Note that we have "human rights", but that we accord lesser but still important rights to our semi-sentient cousins the animals - "animal rights". And we argue over that, explicitly or implicitly according to the nature of the creature.) Once we start creating sentient species, or if we were ever to encounter others, all these questions and problems will be laid in our lap just as they already are in a fantasy setting.

Ghouls? Sentient, yes. Person... no?
Dragons? Sentient, yes. Person... maybe? Probably depends on how you've envisioned dragons. Do Tiamat and Baphomet exist, and did one create all of one group, and one the other?
Glabrezu? Sentient, yes. Person, no.
Mind Flayers? Sentient, yes. Person... you get the picture.

In my setting I laid out a cosmology where the origin of things defines the degree of personhood involved. And as I've argued elsewhere, where things get fuzzy, reasonable people in the world disagree - sometimes for good reasons and sometimes for bad ones.

To really support a broad view of personhood in D&D you'll need to really reinvent the setting. The broader you want to make it, the more you'll need to reinvent it - especially if you want to have something that is more than a superficial gloss that is ignored in practice. For example, you certainly could have ghouls have personhood, but you'd need to really work to make that meaningful. You'll also have to deal with problems that will inevitably arise. For example, why should a dragon, if they are a person, merely have the same rights as a human, seeing that dragons are wiser, more intelligent, and stronger than humans. From their perspective, shouldn't "human rights" be as much less than "dragon rights" as "dog rights" are less than "human rights"? If this isn't true, why isn't it true?
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
So when this hypothetical cult of believes defines "a specific race" what do they mean by it? Do animals count? Animals in the D&D setting can talk ('speak with animals') and are presumably as sentient as the animals of myth and fantasy.

I'm going to push back on this. Amazon is quite willing to sell you a doohickey to sit on your desk or shelf. You can talk to it, and it will respond with information or actions on your behalf. That doesn't make Alexa sentient.

Speak with Animals provides a voice interface to the squirrel. But it is still a squirrel. That you have a voice interface to the squirrel mind does not mean that mind has been thinking deep, poetic thoughts about the pains and joys of its squirrelly existence, or anything.

Do plants count? Plants in the D&D setting can talk ('speak with plants') and are therefore sentient.

No. Speak with Plants explicitly states that the spell imbues the plants with a limited sentience. They are therefore not sentient in their natural state.
 

Celebrim

Legend
I'm going to push back on this. Amazon is quite willing to sell you a doohickey to sit on your desk or shelf. You can talk to it, and it will respond with information or actions on your behalf. That doesn't make Alexa sentient.

Agreed.

Speak with Animals provides a voice interface to the squirrel. But it is still a squirrel. That you have a voice interface to the squirrel mind does not mean that mind has been thinking deep, poetic thoughts about the pains and joys of its squirrelly existence, or anything.

No, but I assert that it thinking and expressing whatever squirrel thoughts we'd expect a squirrel to have in a fairy tale or fantasy. For example, it's quite possible and maybe even probable that fantasy animals are as sentient as the animals of Kipling's 'Jungle Book'.

Certainly that's more likely than they are Alexa-like, although I suppose it's possibly that each animal is just some interface to a larger collective animal intelligence - the "spirit of wolves" for example.

No. Speak with Plants explicitly states that the spell imbues the plants with a limited sentience. They are therefore not sentient in their natural state.

Really? Is that edition specific, because I don't remember that.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
No real world discussion please...

In most fantasy games racism is the core component which allows adventurers to go out, kill things labled evil or just "powerful and inhuman" and take their stuff.
I wonderd how you could bring this up in a game, not as a central theme but more of a side story like a church or organization which fights for complete equality or similar goals, without it being disruptive, unfun or comical as being allowed to kill certain things and take their stuff without reprecussions is kinda the central theme in many RPGs.
.
Ok during session 0; how hard did you set up the good vs evil divide. Back in 1 E my campaign , orcs were always evil. Born evil. Feel free to burn down the orc town Mr. Paladin. In my 2E campaign except of monsters from the outer planes, monsters could be any alignment but 65% fell into the default. PCs would get a phone call from their gawds if they were about to casually slay a good orc.
I think if you have established full spectrum alignment on all "evil" monsters, gentle in game warnings like suddenly rolling with disadvantage because your gawd is warning you is an idea.
 

Remove ads

Top