How to Deal with a difficult DM?

[Dyntheos]

Most issues concerning gaming groups with difficult members focus on the players. How many of you have had to deal with difficult/bad DM's?

What constitutes bad DMing?

For me it's when I leave a game session and say to myself, "I'm not having fun".

Did you discuss the issues, or let it slide? What was the outcome if you did sit down and chat with your DM? Were you brutally honest or did you roll a 35 on your diplomacy check, and smooth talk your way through the issues?

 

[Professor Phobos]

1. Discuss issues. If it's a "style" problem, then a good GM can make some changes. Do this especially if it is isolated to you. (if everyone else loves the GM, then it's probably just a difference of preference)

2. Offer to GM- do this especially if everyone is dissatisfied with the current GM. Most GMs are happy to give up the mantle, since playing is infinitely easier on the ol' brain.

3. Leave. Bad roleplaying is much, much worse than no roleplaying,and your lack of fun will drain fun from others having fun.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

I've had this exact issue. Still do actually, as I'm still playing in the same game.

He literally trashed my first character concept in the game by changing the rules regarding magic item creation. I'll skip the details and just summarize by saying he allowed it at first, then changed the rules to tack on an extra 0 or two on the end of the gp cost for a magic item. As I was playing an artificer mage, this was a tad bit of a problem.

Multiple times I've caught him deliberately bending the rules to allow opponents an edge, and he himself has oft admitted he views the game as a GM vs Player contest. The other players in the group who are experienced with him have commented that they've never seen a character survive to 7th level. One got to 6th and was promptly retired in order to maintain the record.

I've caught him force feeding a situation to the players to force them to use certain critical magic items when he wanted them to, not when they would certainly need to. One poor character was killed due to a deliberate rules mis-interp concerning paralysis and drowning.

Just recently he tossed a full fledged Frost Giant, ECl=9/10 at us. It wouldn't've been too bad if we'd been a few levels higher... But for a party of avg level 3, this was a touch extraordinaire. Luckily, we only lost the first level ranger - the 5th level cleric had two hold persons ready and we survived - more on luck than anything. And this was a random encounter!


Strangely enough, I am still playing in this game. I've actually come to enjoy my new character to some degree, and I'm beginning to find amusement from how badly he strays in his gm'ing style away from what I've been used to as a norm. I've gotten to the point of acceptance, not ranting, and it's been a long hard walk.

I talked with him in the beginning - that did no good. I talked to the other players - that did little good other than letting us all agree on various elements of the complaint and feel a little better. In the end, since it's the only game in my neck o' the woods, I just learned how to accept his strange gm style. I'm now the unofficial rules lawyer though - as I struggle to keep him on the straight and narrow regarding blatant inconsistent rulings

We've handled it in a mature fashion so far. However, if a different game beckoned, or I had the chance to run my own again - I would take it with little regret.

 

[kamosa]

That's tough.

I've had this happen a couple times during my gaming career. I agree, if you aren't having fun, its a bad GM (for you at least).

It really depends on the person. Some people are open to suggestion and want to be better GM's. Some are convinced that they already know everything there is to know and they will take it badly if you try to get them to change.

If you think you can approach this person openly, make sure you respect them while you are giving them the talking to. Nobody likes to hear that they are causing a problem whether they are a player or GM. They will likely be defensive and will probably argue with you about it.

I did this for one GM and they changed. The GM was railroading us pretty hard and then wondering why we were board. I took him aside and talked with him about GMing for a couple hours one night. I tried to show him ways to motivate the players other than RR. He actually took it to heart and ran a much better game after that.

Bouyed up by that experience I tried it with the next RR GM I played under. That totally backfired and ended up ending the game. That GM was determined to show me that I was wrong about gaming and that I didn't know the first thing about something that he considered himself an expert at.

I've also just kept my mouth shut and moved on.

From the other side, when I was a newbie GM, I had a very experienced GM as a player. He would pass me notes mid game with suggestions. He would pass me a note like "The players are getting bored, make something happen". I never took offense to it and often followed them because he was right and it would improve the game.

 

[Eye Tyrant]

In my current game involving 2 completely new players and one who I played with back in high school 1E/2E, it has taken some time for me to feel out what they like and dislike. If a dislike is a rule I feel is "grey" we discuss it and adjust if neccessary. My old player/friend is the most difficult, mainly he wants all the good and none of the bad... and by bad I mean things that adversely effect anything his PCs are doing (which is typical of this style player). I have found that I have to bend a little to keep the game enjoyable for everyone, but I am still able to stand firm on things I believe keep the game balanced.

If your DM is out to get your PCs all the time then contempt can fester, especially if your PC is "picked on".

I repeatedly tell my players: "If WE are not having fun, the game won't last. Players will stop coming and my adventures will show the lack of enthusiasm... etc"

I've never taken the "DM vs PC" approach... I like the "Cool Story, see who makes it out" kinda game....

 

[The_Gneech]

I talked with him in the beginning - that did no good. I talked to the other players - that did little good other than letting us all agree on various elements of the complaint and feel a little better. In the end, since it's the only game in my neck o' the woods, I just learned how to accept his strange gm style. I'm now the unofficial rules lawyer though - as I struggle to keep him on the straight and narrow regarding blatant inconsistent rulings

NOTE: This not a poke at Tilla, but I am always baffled by the "this is the only game in town, so I play" mindset. To anyone who can find a bad game but not a good one, I always wonder, "So why aren't YOU running a good one?"

'tain't exactly rocket science...

-The Gneech

 

[Chimera]

Heh. Walked away from my last D&D game last summer because the GM was hellbent on killing us without regard for how much fun we were having.

My 5th level Cleric had been killed in 2 rounds by a grappling 9th level fighter wearing bladed armor. Yeah, that's something I can survive... Funny how my character, which had been in the back of the party, somehow found himself well out in front when the attack happened - despite my objections.

Then after getting raised, he starts throwing DR monsters at us. In a low magic game where only one of us has a magic weapon. Not coincidentally, it was the regular host who had it. Yeah, 5 guys with no magic, one dwarven fighter (the one who needed it the least) with a +2 Holy Hammer. Fighting evil monsters. Guess who killed every monster while the rest of us ran for our lives or got killed...

I finally decided, as above, that no game was better than this game.

 

[Thramzorean]

Disintegration has its advocates

But seriously with a difficult DM I usually have to make up my mind if it is the current game manner of the DM or if it is a facet of the their personality you are never going to be able to change and either have to live with it or leave. If it's the game manner and the DM is personable outside of the game you can usually point things out without major problems. If it's otherwise you might as well get off the sinking ship.

 

[milotha]

NOTE: This not a poke at Tilla, but I am always baffled by the "this is the only game in town, so I play" mindset. To anyone who can find a bad game but not a good one, I always wonder, "So why aren't YOU running a good one?"
:

This is a classic psychological problem called blaming the victim.

Top ten Reasons you can be stuck in a crappy game:

1) You live in a small town and there aren't many gamers. The GM wants to run and the other players aren't complaining or don't realize how bad the game is.

2) You are friends with the GM, and you can't drop out of the game without hurt feelings.

3) You keep hoping it will get better, and you keep trying to talk to the GM, who promises it will get better, but it never does. The cycle of bad GMing continues.

4) You enjoy playing with the other players and you like your character, but the GM is just dreadful, so you put up with a crappy game to spend time with your friends.

5) You want to ditch the game, but everyone is gaming at your house and they have no where else to game. You feel guilty and continue to play with them.

6) Your best friend invited you into "The best game" and now you can't get out.

7) The GM is playing in your game that you GM

8) You like to play instead of GMing. Perhaps you don't have the time to GM.

9) You already GM a game, but you would also like to play in one.

10) You are a masochist.

 

[jollyninja]

well, i spent 5 years gaming with a terrible dm. horrifically unbalancing rule changes "for flavor", refusal to kill a character who deserved death for his complete stupidity (my character, i'm not a jealous player type) claiming every time that the next campaign would be low magic, then introducing us to the only wizard cabal at lev 2 and giving us an unguarded royal treasury to loot, starting a new canpaign every couple of months, refusal to ever plan anything (though with one of the players, who refused to just gear up and go adventuring just for the adventure, ever it was kind of hard to plan for) for more then the first hour of the evening, never setting one day for the game (whenever enough people show up I'll run it), refusing to let a character succeed if doing so might delay his precious storyline and let a character shine as a hero of some worth despite the stacked odds, using every available variant rule if it helped him but then not letting us use them against the monster ie..." critical hit, i killed the hill giant woo hoo" "no, he parried" "how?" "the dueling rules in combat and tactics allow it, he parried" "he hits you for 20 pts" "i parried it" "you can't, he's to big" "i parried it with a greatsword and i'm wearing a girdle of giant strength" "anyway, you fail" so then this happens...............

the thing is he was the second dm i ever played with so i didn't realise how bad some of it was until i got into eric noah's site in 1999 and hit the boards. i quit altogether for a while and then found a new group. after finding that dm ran a different style then i really wanted, i started my own game, with him as a player on a different night and still play in his game. great group, two verry different dm styles, heck of a fun time. i only know ten gamers in person. if you leave the bad game, others will find you. i met the new dm at work. allways a fun time when the stereotype history major nerd type begins to suspect the jock he works with knows anything at all about D&D. i love watching it because i know how much courage it takes to bring it up the first time in redneck nowhere alberta.