D&D 5E How to deal with Metagaming as a player?

[Lanefan]

I'm sorry, I guess I put too much weight behind your belief that these players that can laugh out of character while having a "deadly serious" in-character "fight" would all come away with hurt feelings and spoiled fun if anyone of them were allowed to suggest things to them out-of-character.

Yet they do. Think about it: during the fight each is able to play his-her character as desired, interacting with the others without outside interference. Out-of-character suggestions are in fact outside interference and serve only to get in the way of - or interrupt - someone playing their own character.

Another factor, which I touched on earlier, is that of...can't think of a word for it, really...social pressure? If you're the active player in an away-from-the-party situation and you muddle through on your own, then for better or worse nobody else at the table can really say anything other than "you did your best" once they learn the outcome, whatever it may be. But if others are allowed to make suggestions it's suddenly not just you any more because everybody else now have a stake in it (or think they do), and you now have to worry about what the repercussions might be if you accept A's suggestion over B's, or don't accept any at all and just do your own thing...or worse, do the wrong thing.

You made it sound like you had a rational fear that your players that are already antagonizing each other would be more antagonistic if given more opportunity for interaction with each other, rather than an irrational fear that players with no issues with each other would somehow develop group-wrecking antagonism for each other if allowed to speak to each other out-of-character about anything related to the game they are playing together.

Yep. But there's a huge difference that I think you're ignoring:

In-character antagonism is part of the game. Out of character antagonism is not.

Lanefan

 

[Lanefan]

If it makes you feel less boggled, my stance on this is the same with any sort of advice - offer it only when asked.

Now that I can get behind, knowing full well that in our crew asking for advice would happen about once every...never. The reason for this should by now be clear: if I'm the away character and I've got myself stuck somehow it's down to me (remaining in character) to either make something out of it or get out of there...until and unless someone comes to bail me out I'm all I've got.

You're quite right, though - at least 99% of the problems I've seen had their roots in unsolicited advice or suggestions.

Nobody wants a "table captain," that guy or gal who tells everyone what to do (even if it's with perfectly good intentions).

True that, but it's what ends up happening all too quickly.

The forums don't count of course. This is the place where unsolicited advice goes.

Except, of course, when someone actually asks for advice...

Lanefan

 

[Lanefan]

And yet this behavior is exhibited by all the major streaming D&D shows...

None of which have I ever watched.

But - different environment again. They're specifically trying to make an entertaining show that people will tune in to (passively) watch. Would their playstyle be the same once the cameras are turned off...or if they had never been turned on?

Lanefan

 

[Lanefan]

Consider some games where one PC is a commander, or in a position of authority, over the other characters. Some people are of the opinion that the other players should take orders from the player of the commanding PC. Ick. No thanks. In these situations, we prefer to allow all the players to act as they otherwise would, and the narrative of that action is that the commander told him to do that particular thing. Whatever that thing was. The story remains intact, but the players get to maintain their agency.

The same here, again, with overly smart PCs. I don't have an 18 intelligence.

Tell me about it.

In the game I play in, my current character not only has Int 19 but through her background and experience* would be the party commander...if the rest of the crew would ever listen to a word she says. That they don't probably makes for a much better game.

* - spent several years in the Roman Legions, rose to (centurion, I think).

Just as long as every word the DM says is assumed to be projected over the scene as a voice over I see no problem with the Ranger having to ask the narrator if he can make a survival check or the Magic-user exclaiming that he is down to 4 hps.

Asking about a game-mechanics thing can always be prefaced with "out of character, ...". The MU saying he's badly hurt could easily be in character, if the h.p. reference wasn't there.

After hearing what Dave said, can't John decide that his Druid draws the same conclusion?

And if there is no reason for John's Druid to draw that conclusion, can't John decide for himself that his Druid doesn't reach the conclusion, despite him as a player knowing the information?

I trust that my players will do this as they feel fits their character. I don't feel a need to stand guard, and keep an eye on what their characters do or do not know.

After hearing what Dave said, it's too late; Dave's put John on the spot and John has to deal with it.

The error came one step earlier: Dave should never have said it in the first place such that John could hear.

Lanefan

 

[Shasarak]

Whenever a player at my table says he's down to 4 hp or less, I tend to tell my players: "Your characters notice that, yeah, he looks pretty bad. He is covered in blood, and has a deep wound across his chest that won't stop bleeding."

And the joke is - that is what the first level wizard looks like all the time!

Thus what my players know outside the game, they now also know inside the game. I merely dress up the same information for them in a way that is a bit more immersive. But I have no issue with one player telling another how much hp he has left.

I like the way that Order of the Stick has its characters being genre savy but it is also amusing when a character knows his hit point total.

 

[Shasarak]

Tell me about it.

In the game I play in, my current character not only has Int 19 but through her background and experience* would be the party commander...if the rest of the crew would ever listen to a word she says. That they don't probably makes for a much better game.

* - spent several years in the Roman Legions, rose to (centurion, I think).

Would commander always be based on Int? Interesting question. I could see force of personality being a factor so Cha would be important. And on the otherhand people respect Str so a strong commander could be an option. Historically commanders often led from the front so having a high Con would be ideal and knowing your enemy could rely on a high Wis. Of course if it was based on the Romans then having a rich dad could actually be the most important stat in the game.

Asking about a game-mechanics thing can always be prefaced with "out of character, ...". The MU saying he's badly hurt could easily be in character, if the h.p. reference wasn't there.

It has to be everything that you say to be realistic.

After hearing what Dave said, it's too late; Dave's put John on the spot and John has to deal with it.

The error came one step earlier: Dave should never have said it in the first place such that John could hear.

Lanefan

Do people use "speaking sticks"? It sounds like some games would use that idea.

 

[Shasarak]

None of which have I ever watched.

But - different environment again. They're specifically trying to make an entertaining show that people will tune in to (passively) watch. Would their playstyle be the same once the cameras are turned off...or if they had never been turned on?

Lanefan

And how much do they edit out in post? I always remember a quote by a significant other saying that she thought DnD is 30 minutes of fun packed into 4 hours of gaming.

 

[FrogReaver]

And the joke is - that is what the first level wizard looks like all the time!



I like the way that Order of the Stick has its characters being genre savy but it is also amusing when a character knows his hit point total.

It would be fun to watch character hp and monster damage both be blind to the players. Would make some crazy funny games where the players actually ran away from stuff because they didn't know how close to death they are.

 

[Corwin]

I guess perhaps it's that in our crew people see it as their game-given right to play their characters how they want...

I realize it is slightly out of context to break the quote out like I just did, but I really think you should take a moment and consider the fact that you started your post off with those words.

 

[Shasarak]

It would be fun to watch character hp and monster damage both be blind to the players. Would make some crazy funny games where the players actually ran away from stuff because they didn't know how close to death they are.

Ha, yeah! I remember a story where two sides are caught in a lightning storm and they run away, each convinced that it was the other sides WoMD.