How to deal with the simultaneous demand for and aversion to "flavor" in RPG books?

Has anybody here considered the possibility most flavor text is simply badly written? Starting with no real enthusiasm for the subject, and going on to such matters as lack of real knowledge.

I have the Wizards' book on the Arctic (spaced the name). When I saw the neanderthal illustration on page whatever (spaced the location) I knew it had serious problems. I mean, someone as tall and lanky and long-limbed as that guy in an arctic environment would freeze to death in short order. There are reasons why Eskimos are short, stocky, and have short limbs.

Know what you're talking about, be enthusiastic about it, and communicate that enthusiasm.

The trick is to engage the reader, make him care about the subject. Get him so enthused he'll be more concerned about how to fit the material in his game than anything else. So his dwarfs don't whistle Brahton theater show tunes, he could still use other elements from The Devious Dwarfs of Durrok's Land and Their Nefarious Plans to Corner the Rice Paper Market sourcebook. But first you need to get his attention.

Really, you're presenting a part of a world when you write an RPG book. You're giving the reader a look at a world his character would be living and having adventures in. Make it a world he's ready to care about. That means caring about that world yourself. People can tell when you don't care, when it's only a job, and it turns them off. Frostburn (I remembered the name!) was only a job, and it reads like it.

A course on effective public speaking would help too. Would teach you how to communicate effectively. An area some people have trouble with. But don't let anything I say discourage you, the more good RPG books we have out there the better the matter the odds on getting people in the hobby.

Good luck.
 

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Turjan said:
Yes :). Several posters did exactly that :).

Does Psion want you revealing certain things about him?

Psion 1: Who's turn is it to post on ENWorld today?

Psion 2: Don't look at me, I posted yesterday.

Psion 3: The last time I posted I got us put on 25 Ignore Lists.

Psion 36: I'm boycotting ENWorld, remember? Eric's Grandmother is a hypocritical bi ...

The other Psions: WE KNOW! STIFLE YOURSELF!
 

I've been missing my web enhancements. How about if the books are flavor-lite and they include more flavor in the web enhancements?
 


I like a good dose of both. I want rules, if there is something that needs defining in that way, but it is also nice to have description of what it is, where it comes from, and so on.

I think the way to do it is to not make it too deeply dependant on world-themes and more of generic or local interest. Like the ecology articles on monsters - they can be almost 100% "flavor" and still not mention anything campaign specific - more generic, like they hang out in forests, or in caves, or whatever. And the same with other things - I have written many character backgrounds for my characters and, while many incorporate some world-specific elements into them, often they also just include things of local and generic interest, like 'he grew up as an apprentice to a blacksmith' or whatever, filling in a lot of specifics at that level. That isn't world specific, but it does provide a lot of flavor.

I don't think there's anything that precludes a highly descriptive bit of "flavor" from being generic.
 

Here's my suggestion: use mechanics to support flavor. One of the reasons that I'm a big fan of Arcanis and the Player's Guide to Arcanis (despite some balance flaws) is that it uses mechanics to support the flavor of the world. There's not just the flavor that Sarish is the god of magic and the binder of demons, Sarishan clerics with the right domain can summon fiends and infernals regardless of the cleric's alignment. People don't just take oaths seriously "because." There are game mechanics for binding oaths like a Sarishan Oath and those mechanics make the oath widely available so that it can have the kind of impact it is supposed to have upon a culture.

Now, if I'm running a non-Arcanis campaign, what will I do with all that? I'll steal the mechanics that add the flavor I want. If I want an oath that everyone takes seriously, I'll steal the mechanics for the Sarishan Oath and rename it. If my players want to play lizardmen, aasimar, or tieflings, rather than deal with ECL and LAs, I'll import Ss'ressen, val, and dark kin (and, in the process, I'll get around the problem that all aasimar and tieflings have the same abilities no matter whether they are descended from Eladrin or Archons).

Adventures are a different kettle of fish than sourcebooks. You generally can't separate the parts of the adventure the way you can separate the Sarishan Oath mechanic from the god Sarish and the Arcanis Pantheon or the way you could introduce dark-kin into a game without taking the godswall and Arcanis history with them. Consequently, it pays to make adventures somewhat self-contained and to avoid using too many world specific items. A section on adapting the adventure to other settings might also help.
 

Off Topic/On Topic

*Off Topic* Is it just me, or has there been an awful lot of thread necromancy recently?

*On Topic* I think that flavor should be relegated to a seperate section than the rules. For example while Sorcery & Steam by Fantasy Flight has organizations for the prestige classes therein it has them seperate from the crunchy rules. (Though I lifted quite a few of them with the organizations intact.)

The Auld Grump
 

TheAuldGrump said:
*Off Topic* Is it just me, or has there been an awful lot of thread necromancy recently?

Guilty.

Although in my defence, when I revived a long dead-thread in order to talk about something I'm writing, I did at least pick a thread that was specifically about something I'd written. :)

And after bouncing it a few times by replying to posts people had made to it, I decided to let it slip back into retirement, although if anyone feels like leaping in with the plates and shouting, "Clear!", be my guest...
 

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