D&D 5E How to defeat creatures with legendary actions?

[Coroc]

It won't take the character all the way down to minus max HP. They won't die unless the DM deliberately attack the downed character.

So let us assume a wizard has 55 HP, but he is down to 10, then gets hit by a dragon breath targeting the group for another 70 damage, because he botched the save, is that the DM deliberately attacking downed chars, or a clean instakill, in yur POV?

 

[Nefermandias]

So let us assume a wizard has 55 HP, but he is down to 10, then gets hit by a dragon breath targeting the group for another 70 damage, because he botched the save, is that the DM deliberately attacking downed chars, or a clean instakill, in yur POV?

It doesn't matter. If you followed my posts in this thread, you'll see I was just asking for a few official options to make the game more like it was before so I don't have to resort to homebrew rules or OSR retro clones.

Everyone insisting 5e doesn't go out of it's way to prevent PC's death either aren't being completely honest or aren't really getting my point.

That's all.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

It doesn't matter. If you followed my posts in this thread, you'll see I was just asking for a few official options to make the game more like it was before so I don't have to resort to homebrew rules or OSR retro clones.

Why not house rule? It's not like the quality of the "official options" we've seen so far have been particularly good.

 

[tetrasodium]

Why not house rule? It's not like the quality of the "official options" we've seen so far have been particularly good.

Official options provide some portability and consistency. I can use whatever house rules in my personal games but if I join some other game or one of my less experienced players decides to gm I can't really point out my house rules as s suggtion because this is an area where it can get pretty involved amending all of the system's deliberate edge cases.

Edit: the lengths 5e goes to in order to avoid being deadly and wotc's silence on the idea of changing anything even with optional rules is also an oppressive presence in the discussion with players that immediately puts the gm (or whoever) in a bad light for daring to bring up something wotc is clearly of the opinion is a bad style of gaming

Even if I never play at someone else's table this absence has big issues for me because new players joining my game have a lot more house rules unique to my table that they might need to learn before or during their first session.

 

[AnotherGuy]

What @tetrasodium and @Nefermandias rings true.
5e, does not work like some of the older editions, where the monsters on their own could kill, more often than not one requires to homebrew the monsters, create house rules and/or use GM fiat to seriously threaten or kill PCs.

House Rules
I know to beef up my incorporeal undead, I introduced the 3.x touch rule.
Touch attacks by incorporeal creatures ignore physical defenses such as armour and shields. Now that +4 to hit is scarier.

Homebrew the Monsters
When possible, I use @Nixlord's Expanded Monster Manuals. Besides the incredible art and detailed work, the reason there is such a demand for this is because the official monsters are meh.

GM Fiat
Monsters have learnt to target foci and holy symbols, take the dodge action and use their Legendary Attacks, Huge+ monsters that miss on their attacks damage the terrain around them instead...etc

 

[fearsomepirate]

I've killed a lot of PCs. I don't use homebrew monsters because that sounds like work, something I am firmly against as a DM. Mostly I just don't really give a crap about trying to "balance" anything and leave it up to the players to figure out what to do. Running things this way also means I don't just do, "You see three bugbears, roll initiative."

 

[nevin]

sounds like your DM is playing very tactically. Just make sure your mages and casters are in places the Melee can reach. It means your casters will be hit more but it also means when they are the party can turn on the offender en masse and destroy it.

 

[ad_hoc]

Ranged attacks spells etc that force the target to use up its Legendary Resistances, before you hit it with the big save-or-suck stuff.

Legendary saves are optional.

Creatures aren't forced to use them.

 

[MarkB]

Legendary saves are optional.

Creatures aren't forced to use them.

In which case the creature gets to suck to a lesser degree, but earlier in the fight, which is still no bad thing for its opponents.

 

[S'mon]

Legendary saves are optional.

Creatures aren't forced to use them.

There's plenty of repeatable stuff like Monk Stun or Hold Person that will cost the monster a round of having the entire group wail on the monster, that is worth using a Legendary save to prevent. 20 damage (save for half) on a 400 hp monster isn't likely to force it to burn a Legendary, but anything that interferes with its action economy is good. The idea is to put the monster & GM in a no-win situation; either suck now or burn LS and suck worse later. The main PC-side trick is to save the higher level spell slots for when the Legendaries are gone - having it burn a LS vs a Monk Stun Save is better than having it burn a LS vs a level 9 spell slot.