How to describe Strider's combat on Weathertop

[WizarDru]

There was also a fairly clear implication that were creatures on Caradhras that were neither goblin nor orc, and that didn't appreciate company. It was implied that they served the will of the mountain, as well, IIRC, tossing rocks and things from high above.

 

[mmadsen]

Let's also remember that Pippin was the son of the Thain of the Shire; if anyone in the Shire was an Aristocrat, he would be - he was a true "prince of the Halflings."

Certainly the Shire has its landed gentry, but are they D&D Aristocrats? The D&D Aristocrat represents a member of the martial aristocracy of a quasi-Renaissance society -- d8 Hit Dice, decent BAB, martial weapon and armor proficiencies, etc. Even a wealthy Hobbit seems more like an Expert to me (just like a wealthy Englishman in the first half of the 20th century).

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Concerning Caradhras

Anyone who lives in the Rocky Mountains, Sierra, Alps, Scandinavia, or the Mountains of Australia and New Zealand can attest to just HOW BAD a winter storm can be, in the dead of winter.

Here, in the United States (America) the attempts of frontier people to cross over the Front Range of the Rockies and the High Sierra are legendary (I can only guess how bad the Canadian Rockies must be like.)

The Donner Pass party was stranded in the High Sierra in November, when snow blocked all egress from those high places, and they were required to stay until spring.
Of course, we know that many of them died, and we know how the others survived ... I'm not going into that, here.

It should be remembered that Eriador, like England, has a Marine West Coast climate.
It is not too hot in the summer, and not particularly cold in the winter.
Yet even in Eriador, even in these later, warmer days, the clime worsened and chilled as one went eastward.

Rivendell was warm enough for oak and maple.
In the hills around Rivendell, deciduous trees gave way to evergreens.
And that's fairly close to sea level.
The Redhorn Pass was, at the least, over 5,000 feet up (more like, over 10,000 feet up, but that's just a guess.)

Going over that pass in January meant facing the most awful of winter conditions.
The party should have expected, and prepared for:

Temperatures below - 30 Celsius (- 21 Fahrenheit.)
Windchills below - 50 Celsius (- 60 Fahrenheit), reaching - 70 Celsius (- 94 Fahrenheit) in worse case scenarios.
Winds of gale force, with gusts in excess of hurricane force.
Whiteout conditions.
Deep snow.
Avalanches.

And this, in a normal mountain range.
Caradhros was no normal mountain - it was apparently sentient, and resented intruders on it's flanks, and with some manner of control over the elements did as it could to drive them away (or kill them.)

Had I been Gandalf and Company, I would have brought the biggest, heaviest fur coat I could bear (preferably, one skinned from the bears of the white north of Forodwaith.)
Huge, fur lined boots.
Enormous, fur lined gloves.
Snowshoes.
Face masks.
Eye goggles (if the elves could make such.)
And as much wood as could be carried, by every member in the party.

The party was shivering and shaking while still in the lowlands west of the mountains (Tolkien, to paraphrase: the chill wind cut through every article of clothing they could put in.)
Not so good for them, when one considers what they presumed to take on.

I hope someone who lives in the Rockies, Sierra, Alps, Scandanavia, or the Southern Alps will come on and discuss winter in the mountains.
They would be most enlightening - I live in Michigan, and can only relate secondhand information from what I have heard from others.

 

[sword-dancer]

Re: Re: Re: Devils Advocate, part 2

Wasn't Saruman the one responsible for the storm over Caradhras? (Or am I thinking of the film rather than the novel?)

Film

I ask myself if this is a trick from the enemy, in my country is called, he could direct the storms of the shadow mountains , fom the border of mordor. Boromir

Gimli His arm has truly grown long, when he could take snow from the north to burden us 300 miles beyond

His Arm has grown long said Gandalf

 

[ColonelHardisson]

The D&D Aristocrat represents a member of the martial aristocracy of a quasi-Renaissance society

I don't think everyone sees it like that. Not that this is a definitive answer, but here's a quote from the latest issue of Dragon (299), in the Campaign Components: Knights section; p.36, Aristocrats:

Aristocrats are the rest of the non-combatant nobility. Noble knights are typically aristocrat/fighters, capable of assuming a haughty demeanor on and off the battlefield. Kings, princes, and courtiers with no other useful skills are members of the aristocrat class.

Emphasis mine.

 

[mmadsen]

I don't think everyone sees it like that.

Certainly true combat veterans would have levels in Fighter, not just Aristocrat, but the D&D Aristocrat is obviously an Aristocrat of a martial society. After all, the Aristocrat gets d8 Hit Dice, decent BAB, martial weapon and armor proficiencies, etc.

None of that seems appropriate to a wealthy Hobbit any more than it seems appropriate to wealthy gentleman in Tolkien's English countryside. Certainly Bilbo and Frodo didn't grow up training in the ways of war. Should they leave the Shire proficient with martial weapons, armor, and shields?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Certainly true combat veterans would have levels in Fighter, not just Aristocrat, but the D&D Aristocrat is obviously an Aristocrat of a martial society. After all, the Aristocrat gets d8 Hit Dice, decent BAB, martial weapon and armor proficiencies, etc.

None of that seems appropriate to a wealthy Hobbit any more than it seems appropriate to wealthy gentleman in Tolkien's English countryside. Certainly Bilbo and Frodo didn't grow up training in the ways of war. Should they leave the Shire proficient with martial weapons, armor, and shields?

I see what you're saying. I've thought about this very issue a few times. I actually believe it works, though. My rationale for why it works would probably not convince enough people to make it worthwhile for me to type it out, so I'll simply agree that the Expert (maybe even the Rogue) would fit some of these characters better for some gamers.