Wik
First Post
my favourite class is the 3.5E spellthief. I absolutely loved being able to steal an opponent's spells, and then have to figure out on the fly how to use them to best effect. Getting into position to steal a spell, and then carrying it off, was a great thrill.
The class let you steal your enemy's resources and use them against him. But it had a lot of flaws in it's design:
1) It was reliant on the GM. If the GM didn't throw in spellcasters, you were boned.
2) You could really only steal spells, and do some neat magic stuff. The class was too reliant on skills, and didn't have nearly enough skill points (a spellthief had the same points as a bard, and needed to take Spellcraft, Knowledge/Arcana, Hide, Move Silently, Disable Device, Open Lock, Use Magic Device... and you probably wanted Spot, Listen, and Search, as well. Not to mention Bluff, to get your sneak attacks in!)
3) If there wasn't a victom for your steal spells ability, you were pretty much a nerfed rogue. Unless you started stealing spells from an ally, essentially doubling his spellcasting output (which could be fun, but only for a bit).
So, how do you do the spellthief in 4e?
I should mention that I'm interested more in retaining the mechanical flavour of the class, as opposed to the actual look and feel of the class. So, this class should be able to steal any enemy encounter power, and use it as his own.
Some ideas:
1) The class would probably be a controller, with striker tendencies.
2) "Steal Spell" would be a minor action, useable twice per encounter or something like that, and would require combat advantage to hit. I'm thinking it'd be something like "Charisma vs. Will", though that'd make it hard to use against actual spell-using enemies. Charisma vs. AC might work better. It has to be a close-range attack.
3) Once you steal a power, it takes the slot of one of your encounter powers of the same or higher level. So, if you steal an encounter power from a level 5 monster, you would lose a level 5 encounter power (or higher) and get that power in it's place. To encourage this, many spellthief encounter powers would be pretty low-key.
Or, as a variant, if you stole a power from a heroic tier monster, it would have to replace a heroic tier encounter power (or daily, if you happen to steal a daily power).
If you steal a power, the monster loses it, just as if they had used it. It cannot recharge until the spellthief uses the power, though they should only have "Until the end of your next turn" to use the power.
4) Spellthief powers should be concerned primarily with stealing things like resistances, auras, and the like. And moving them around. They should also get a few mage-like powers. No huge damage powers, and none of the usual controller-like area attacks.
5) Prime abilities should be Charisma, Intelligence, and Dexterity. It should be a light armour class that uses simple weapons, just like in 3e.
6) A big problem would be figuring out the attack numbers for stolen powers. If I steal an attack that is "+7 vs. Will", how do I quickly figure out my attack numbers for it? I think the basic way to do it would be to say "If an attack targets AC, use this number; if it targets a different defence, use this number; if it targets only one foe, add 2" or something like that. It's a simple way of doing things, but it would probably work.
7) Y'know, it should probably have a few lurker-like abilities as utility powers, because this class is pretty much a lurker controller.
8) It'd need an implement. I don't know if the 4e spellthief would really be all that arcane (because it could, in theory, steal a dragon's breath weapon), so a wand might be a weird implement to use.
....thoughts? Opinions? Things I've missed?
The class let you steal your enemy's resources and use them against him. But it had a lot of flaws in it's design:
1) It was reliant on the GM. If the GM didn't throw in spellcasters, you were boned.
2) You could really only steal spells, and do some neat magic stuff. The class was too reliant on skills, and didn't have nearly enough skill points (a spellthief had the same points as a bard, and needed to take Spellcraft, Knowledge/Arcana, Hide, Move Silently, Disable Device, Open Lock, Use Magic Device... and you probably wanted Spot, Listen, and Search, as well. Not to mention Bluff, to get your sneak attacks in!)
3) If there wasn't a victom for your steal spells ability, you were pretty much a nerfed rogue. Unless you started stealing spells from an ally, essentially doubling his spellcasting output (which could be fun, but only for a bit).
So, how do you do the spellthief in 4e?
I should mention that I'm interested more in retaining the mechanical flavour of the class, as opposed to the actual look and feel of the class. So, this class should be able to steal any enemy encounter power, and use it as his own.
Some ideas:
1) The class would probably be a controller, with striker tendencies.
2) "Steal Spell" would be a minor action, useable twice per encounter or something like that, and would require combat advantage to hit. I'm thinking it'd be something like "Charisma vs. Will", though that'd make it hard to use against actual spell-using enemies. Charisma vs. AC might work better. It has to be a close-range attack.
3) Once you steal a power, it takes the slot of one of your encounter powers of the same or higher level. So, if you steal an encounter power from a level 5 monster, you would lose a level 5 encounter power (or higher) and get that power in it's place. To encourage this, many spellthief encounter powers would be pretty low-key.
Or, as a variant, if you stole a power from a heroic tier monster, it would have to replace a heroic tier encounter power (or daily, if you happen to steal a daily power).
If you steal a power, the monster loses it, just as if they had used it. It cannot recharge until the spellthief uses the power, though they should only have "Until the end of your next turn" to use the power.
4) Spellthief powers should be concerned primarily with stealing things like resistances, auras, and the like. And moving them around. They should also get a few mage-like powers. No huge damage powers, and none of the usual controller-like area attacks.
5) Prime abilities should be Charisma, Intelligence, and Dexterity. It should be a light armour class that uses simple weapons, just like in 3e.
6) A big problem would be figuring out the attack numbers for stolen powers. If I steal an attack that is "+7 vs. Will", how do I quickly figure out my attack numbers for it? I think the basic way to do it would be to say "If an attack targets AC, use this number; if it targets a different defence, use this number; if it targets only one foe, add 2" or something like that. It's a simple way of doing things, but it would probably work.
7) Y'know, it should probably have a few lurker-like abilities as utility powers, because this class is pretty much a lurker controller.
8) It'd need an implement. I don't know if the 4e spellthief would really be all that arcane (because it could, in theory, steal a dragon's breath weapon), so a wand might be a weird implement to use.
....thoughts? Opinions? Things I've missed?