How to Encourage Melee Combat in a Sci-fi Setting? (5e)

[Fragsie]

Space stations could very well have a ban on weapons. But a simple dagger or fighting stick could easily be smuggled into a bar (especially if its one of those awesome Minbari folding canes). Besides, not even the most advanced plasma rifle can defend you against some alien coming up behind you in a bar, and stabbing you in the neck.

A very good point, I imagine many places would have gun laws; ships and stations as you suggest, but perhaps even outpost and colonies, definitely a quandary that would come up.

Personal shields could definitely be a thing. You could even make a difference between energy shields (against energy weapons) and kinetic shields (against ballistic weapons).

This could be done, it would require damage types to be grouped into kinetic (piercing, bludgeoning etc) and energy (fire, cold, radiant etc), but doing this as well as some mechanic to restrict it to ranged attacks and it starts become a bit clunky rules-wise. I definitely want these fields to be effective against ranged only and not melee. Is it not easier to stick to one existing damage type, with the option to potentially add other damage types at higher levels using the magic item mechanic already in place in D&D?

But if personal shields are a thing, then there is no reason why not every soldier and every combat droid would be equipped with one as well. The logical outcome of the existence of any such device, is that almost everyone would buy one.

As is, this is true, but the aim for these items is to strengthen lower AC, close range characters; against the increased ranged damage potential of a setting with lots of guns. I see it as an option that should appeal to lower AC characters and its use should be situational. I'm thinking that fields will not be usable at the same time as heavy armour for some reason, or perhaps even light or no armour only? Also I think fields should give disadvantage to stealth; easily explained as the field giving off a hum or glow when in use. I think these restrictions would address the 'everyone would have one' issue.

This opens up the possibility that there are also weapons that specifically take out shields, or at least weaken them. Perhaps some energy weapons even have an adjustable setting between weakening shields, and just doing damage. Like in Judge Dredd, such weapon settings could be voice activated.

That is cool, depending on how the fields end up working, I do want a weapon or weapon property that can bypass fields (Gauss), but I hadn't considered a weapon that specifically overloads shields, and I like the idea

It is also not hard to imagine that in a future setting, people could have personal shields surgically implanted in their bodies (depending on how big and heavy they are).

I imagined them as being wearable and taking up a belt or arm slot. There are definitely characters that would be able to have a field implanted, but this would require a cybernetic base framework (providing power, maintenance etc) already implanted. This is achieved through the Augmented class, or potentially a feat.

I presume this fictional device uses energy to soak up what ever energy is coming its way... ...it simply soaks up damage, until it runs out.

While this is cool, again I'm worried about there being too much book keeping or complex rules. I prefer the idea that it would stop working if it soaks it's maximum damage in one hit. And require a short rest to reset (tech characters could be able to do this in encounters).

Enemies could use mobile shield generators...

Yes! Definitely. I imagine there are such devices that generate area or wall fields, it would add a dimension tactically (rogue has to sneak in and take out the generator before the sniper can get off his shot).

Well they could be super expensive to run or require extremely rare substances or secret knowledge. Then you could have unscreened mooks.

Sure, the fields should be expensive enough that not everyone would have one, but I also want PCs to be able to afford the cheapest one by 2nd level at least. How common they are amongst the enemy would depend on the funding and/or technology level of the foe.

Ignore it, and it'll go away. Make weapons such as rifles, pistols, and shotguns expensive. Don't make them rare, just put a price tag on them

A fair suggestion, energy weapons (that won't be affected by fields) are going to be pretty expensive, but I want a healthy portion of ballistics weapons to be available to 1st level characters, so they can't be too expensive.

And finally, the last bit of advice I can recommend is just removing the aspect of melee combat all together. Combat even nowadays doesn't normally get close enough for the use of melee. It's always there, and the combatants are trained in it, but very few soldiers ever need to use their knife for anything other than opening a tin of beans.

If this were a straight-up scifi setting I would probably agree with you here. But Spirit is a sci-fantasy setting. The main reason for this whole discussion is because i want there to be melee! sword wielding space-knights, priests summoning angels, demons and dragons, a commando with a minigun facing off against a psion that grows blades from his own bones.

 

[transcendantviewer]

Then you're going to have to tie such a thing into the lore itself. A reason why these devices are still viable, and not just a McGuffin to explain their existence. Go the George Lucas route of tying the sword and similar weaponry into tradition. Aside from that, I can't make too many recommendations; your setting has so many conflicting ideals, it's a wonder it made it beyond the planning stages. Short of making melee fighters into Super Mutants with enough Plot Armor to stop tank shells, you aren't going to see melee combat used in a world full of guns, bullets, rockets, battle tanks, and space travel. I'm sorry for sounding snarky, but I don't agree with creating a device just for the sake of balance. It feels like you're not only tweaking the game balance, but bending the rules to the point of tacking on patch notes. If you're going to do that, you need to take it to the right degree. Imposing disadvantage on ranged attacks is exactly the kind of rule you need to make this shield generator work, especially in a system with such abundant firearms and projectile weapons.

 

[Herobizkit]

It could be that the environment itself is too dangerous to employ energy weapons - flammable gas, weird gravity wells, or they attract all the wrong attention from the hostile wildlife.

In Robotech, fr'ex, the Invid aliens harvest their special energy-flowers (called protoculture) for their own use, but humanity has adapted the same energy for their machines and weapons. Invid can detect any 'active' protoculture and will relentlessly hone in on it; in many cases, the only way for humans to avoid detection is to shut their machines off and hope for the best.

Also, displacement fields (like our good ol' displacer beast) could baffle ranged targeting, and many regular armors could offer Resistance to specific energy/ranged weapons. (Back to Robotech - body armor made in Invid times is coated with a mirror-like substance that halves damage against lasers).

 

[Fragsie]

Then you're going to have to tie such a thing into the lore itself...

Oh it is, the setting has been running for about a decade, there is plenty of lore and background. One of the Syran Alliance's castes train with halberds as a long honoured tradition as well has a meditative means of calming their violent natures in public and focusing their senses in battle. For Canopians it is a right of passage in order to leave your pod to hunt and kill a Goghkot with no guns and fashion a blade from it's rib bone (traditionally this was to ensure you had a deadly weapon in the the wide world, and to leave your family with a food to make up for the loss of a hunter). These are just two examples from the setting.

your setting has so many conflicting ideals, it's a wonder it made it beyond the planning stages.

A little harsh maybe? which ideals do you find conflicting? there are no end of successful sci-fantasy universes out there in literature, film and gaming (both computer, and tabletop), where guns are used alongside swords and magic.

The setting itself is supposed to highlight certain opposed philosophies, and to explore them IG; how religion fares in a world where increasing science debunks it's myths is a known premise IRL, in Spirit we turn this on its head and examine how science fairs when religion debunks the debunking and says 'but my prayers work and I can prove it'. How do human religions and spirituality fair when confronted with alien religions and mysticism? How does this influence interstellar politics and war? That's the backdrop anyway, individual campaigns that have been run in the universe have been quite varied; a party of space pirates in unclaimed space, a secret special ops team working for the human empire throughout the known galaxy, an inter-governmental drug enforcement team, a prophesied fellowship that had to unite several alien artefacts in order to stop a cataclysm, a group of bounty hunters working on the frontier... And that's without going into the individual character's back stories and motivations.

...you aren't going to see melee combat used in a world full of guns, bullets, rockets, battle tanks, and space travel... but I don't agree with creating a device just for the sake of balance.

This is exactly the point of my quandary and the reason I'm trying to introduce a mechanic. It's not just adding something for the sake of balance at all. I'm adding it for the sake of the story, feel and lore of the setting... but then once added, it needs to actually be balanced, that's the reason I've brought it to the boards. In retrospect; I maybe didn't name the thread too well, though I've loved some of the questions and ideas people have raised.

It could be that the environment itself is too dangerous to employ energy weapons - flammable gas, weird gravity wells, or they attract all the wrong attention from the hostile wildlife.

Love it! some cool ideas there. The navigator class in past editions has had some wicked gravity based powers that could affect projectiles among other things. Here's a link if you're interested in perusing (it's for 4e).

In Robotech, fr'ex, the Invid aliens harvest their special energy-flowers (called protoculture) for their own use, but humanity has adapted the same energy for their machines and weapons. Invid can detect any 'active' protoculture and will relentlessly hone in on it; in many cases, the only way for humans to avoid detection is to shut their machines off and hope for the best.

I can definitely see some alien creatures having some sort of attraction to active fields, could make some cool encounters riffing off this

Also, displacement fields (like our good ol' displacer beast) could baffle ranged targeting, and many regular armors could offer Resistance to specific energy/ranged weapons. (Back to Robotech - body armor made in Invid times is coated with a mirror-like substance that halves damage against lasers).

Yeah mirroring is cool, definitely used on some ships and stations within the universe, but I'd never considered it on the smaller scale... Interesting, and probably useful if you know you're going up against energy weaponry, it wouldn't be very stealthy though, and there's be risk of scatter damage to anyone near the target that isn't also wearing mirrored armour.

 

[77IM]

So it's the actual rules-fu part of this i'm trying to get down on paper. So far a few different options have been suggested:

Fields grant disadvantage vs ranged attacks
This feels a bit much for me, a flat disadvantage on attacks against you seems pretty hench, especially for a piece of equipment. Expanding this a bit to say "... made at long range" could work, this would confer an added advantage to using Gauss weapons (guns that have no long range).

Fields grant a bonus to AC
In the vein of a deflection bonus from 3.5e; bonus to AC against attacks made from 10ft or more away. I don't think this fits thematically, the player would have to switch between 2 different ACs, which you don't see elsewhere in 5e, this becomes even more fiddly to track if it is vs only piercing damage.

Fields grant resistance to piercing damage
I like this because it won't completely counter damage, just reduce it. but as a flat bonus there is no room for scaling, it would be one piece of equipment that is as effective at 1st level as at 20th. Scaling could be achieved by using a mechanic to see if the field works or not, such as rolling a d6 and on a 1 or 2 the field fails. More advanced fields could allow more dice to be rolled, thus making them more reliable.

Fields grant 'dice roll' damage reduction against piercing damage
I like the randomness of this option, you are guaranteed a minimum DR, but could potentially completely soak a weak shot. Higher level options would give a higher number of soak dice. As suggested, if the field soaks maximum damage it could short or need to reset (read: short rest).

Here's an important one:

Fields grant a pool of buffer HP against hypersonic/energy attacks
This is VERY easy to track and doesn't slow down game play at all (the way damage reduction or dice-roll damage reduction would). It also allows you to have different quality fields with different sized pools. One problem is scaling with level gets weird. I envision something like this:
Standard field: 10 HP at 1st level + 5 HP per additional level
+1 field: 12 HP at 1st level + 6 HP per additional level
+2 field: 14 HP at 1st level + 7 HP per additional level
+3 field: 16 HP at 1st level + 8 HP per additional level

The field resets on a short rest, and maybe spellcasters can refill it (a recharge field spell that restores 1d8 per spell level, + spellcasting ability). Or you could lower the field pool size and have it regenerate during combat; that could lead to an interesting dynamic where people who's fields are depleted have to take cover or close to melee...

 

[dmnqwk]

One thing to consider is how did combat change from the 13th century to the 20th century.

Think about modern police shows - why do you find a lot of the time a brawl occurs, or punches happen? A number of reasons tend to cause these but often they wouldn't apply to a normal DnD Campaign:
1) Line of Sight. It's much harder to get line of sight when they're fighting in a warehouse and stealthing after each other. In DnD you're used to much more open combat arenas, especially with strange creatures.
2) Ammunition. Imagine if instead of firing 1 arrow from 20 a round, the archer used a pistol and fired all 6 shots against a foe. Suddenly they need to reload, or having used up their emergency ammunition they have to resort to melee. Again, this wouldn't happen in DnD because quite often you're looking at a RoF not conducive to ammo conservation.

Personally If i was going for a Sci-Fi setting I would focus on fixing those 2 problems before I considered inventing new systems such as energy shields and kinetic vests - I would probably look to limit Blasters to either a limited number of shots, or add in misfire rules that mean using a blaster over a laser sword is not always the best move.
On top of this I would look to put humanoid vs humanoid battles in locations where cover was easily prevalent and players could move from cover to cover until they were close to the enemy, then step out and run them through with a cyber cutlass.

I think having a Reflective Field is okay, but I would definitely look to limit the power of blasters not by reducing their strength, but by increasing the likelihood they are not the best option to use 24/7.