D&D 5E How to have a constructive conversation with players?

[Triumphruin]

I'm running a campaign of Descent into Avernus for a party of 5, and I think we've fallen into a bit of a rut. We're just at the end of chapter 2, and I find I've just been going through the motions, setting up maps and tokens, reading the relevant blurbs, and running the combats, then moving on. It's become very dull for me, and I'm sure equally dull for my players. I opted to take a break over October and run some Halloween one-shots, which we enjoyed, but now going back to the main campaign is on the cards, I think it would be a good idea to talk to everyone about expectations and wants going forward.
How can I best go about discussing the game with my players? I want to keep playing and finish the adventure, but it's becoming a slog, and I feel something needs to change. What are useful and constructive questions to ask my players, and what are good ways to make your game more engaging?

 

[Ovinomancer]

I'm running a campaign of Descent into Avernus for a party of 5, and I think we've fallen into a bit of a rut. We're just at the end of chapter 2, and I find I've just been going through the motions, setting up maps and tokens, reading the relevant blurbs, and running the combats, then moving on. It's become very dull for me, and I'm sure equally dull for my players. I opted to take a break over October and run some Halloween one-shots, which we enjoyed, but now going back to the main campaign is on the cards, I think it would be a good idea to talk to everyone about expectations and wants going forward.
How can I best go about discussing the game with my players? I want to keep playing and finish the adventure, but it's becoming a slog, and I feel something needs to change. What are useful and constructive questions to ask my players, and what are good ways to make your game more engaging?

First, why is it a slog for you? You have to answer that question, and honestly, or anything that comes out of a discussion will be papering over the problem and it'll just show back up. What's going on in the game that you're not liking? Is there anything happening you do like? Get yourself crystal clear as to issues and likes BEFORE you talk to players, or you'll have a frustration talk followed by more frustrating game.

 

[ccs]

Well, you could just.... talk to them.
Ask them if they're having fun. Are they enjoying the adventure? Do they like how you're DMing? Is there anything they think should change - story/mechanics/characters/etc?

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

Did you guys have a session zero? Are the characters a team that fit the story? Do the players and DM have the same expectations in terms of roleplay vs combat? Do you, as DM, have enough time to prepare?

If you are just bored reading the chapters and making sure that the players get onto the right plot hooks, why don't you build some homebrew stuff into it? Surprise the players, and challenge yourself.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ask point blank if they like the adventure. Apparently it's not very good.

Only book at my flgs I haven't bought.

 

[R_J_K75]

Ask point blank if they like the adventure. Apparently it's not very good.

Only book at my flgs I haven't bought.

I agree.

 

[R_J_K75]

I'm running a campaign of Descent into Avernus for a party of 5, and I think we've fallen into a bit of a rut. We're just at the end of chapter 2, and I find I've just been going through the motions, setting up maps and tokens, reading the relevant blurbs, and running the combats, then moving on. It's become very dull for me, and I'm sure equally dull for my players. I opted to take a break over October and run some Halloween one-shots, which we enjoyed, but now going back to the main campaign is on the cards, I think it would be a good idea to talk to everyone about expectations and wants going forward.
How can I best go about discussing the game with my players? I want to keep playing and finish the adventure, but it's becoming a slog, and I feel something needs to change. What are useful and constructive questions to ask my players, and what are good ways to make your game more engaging?

Some adventures either just aren't good period, or aren't good for certain tables. I've walked out of movies before, quit reading books because they weren't enjoyable. Its seems like here no one is having fun so there is no shame in just throwing in the towel for something better or doing a hard reset on the adventure if that's what everyone wants. One thing I wouldn't do or recommend is continuing playing the adventure if no ones is having fun; that's the best way to lose players.

 

[Zardnaar]

Some adventures either just aren't good period, or aren't good for certain tables. I've walked out of movies before, quit reading books because they weren't enjoyable. Its seems like here no one is having fun so there is no shame in just throwing in the towel for something better or doing a hard reset on the adventure if that's what everyone wants. One thing I wouldn't do or recommend is continuing playing the adventure if no ones is having fun; that's the best way to lose players.

This. Confession never finished an AP or WotC hardcover adventure since the shackled city AP.

 

[TheSword]

My only concern with asking players up front if they like something, they tend to not want to offend or see a campaign cancelled so will usually say it’s fun.

I’ve also seen players are also enjoying something but aren’t great at ‘telling their face’ so you think they’re bored but they would be genuinely shocked.

None of that is going to change whether you are enjoying it or not. I totally agree with Ovinomancer... you have to decide what your concerns are.

One thing for you to consider though. I’ve just finished a run through of Descent into Avernus (last session last night) and I’ll be honest it has all the nuance of brick. If you play it as written what feels like a linear adventure in chapters 1 and 2 becomes even more so when you open up into Chapter 3 Avernus onwards which is supposed to be the meat of the adventure. I had a relatively new group and the adventure displayed all the worst traits of 5e most of all, bags of HP. The vehicle rules were a massive disappointment and even with high levels of cover the PCs were almost always better targeting the crew which quickly made the vehicles pointless.

I have also decided that I now HATE multi-stream adventures - exemplified hear in Path of Demons, Path of Devils. This is just a railroad that branches once - without the PCs even realising the consequence of the decision. The same happened in Waterdeep. I don’t care about replayability if the first time I run it is meh.

Most characters are almost completely one dimensional. The wandering Emporium is interesting but ultimately irrelevant, Lulu is comic relief and the shield is a wasted opportunity. Unless you’re an experienced player the difference between demons and devils is baffling to most people and the infinite scale of the plane means exploring is very very difficult.

If I was re-running the campaign - and I’m tempted too one day with a more experienced group - then I would add a prelude in Elturel that introduces the city at its peak, explaining the Companion. ake a much bigger deal of the devil worship in chapter One and the commitment. I’d run the defense of Elturel as a points scoring - defend the city under siege scenario - with the PCs taking charge of defense.

Then the Avernus / Paths of XXX / Search for the sword would be replaced with competing factions searching for advantage in the politics of Avernus. There are some really interesting encounters but because the ‘rewards’ for them consist of Go to X, agree to do a task, which means going to Y, where you find you now need to complete a task at Z so on ad nauseam.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

I'm running a campaign of Descent into Avernus for a party of 5, and I think we've fallen into a bit of a rut. We're just at the end of chapter 2, and I find I've just been going through the motions, setting up maps and tokens, reading the relevant blurbs, and running the combats, then moving on. It's become very dull for me, and I'm sure equally dull for my players. I opted to take a break over October and run some Halloween one-shots, which we enjoyed, but now going back to the main campaign is on the cards, I think it would be a good idea to talk to everyone about expectations and wants going forward.
How can I best go about discussing the game with my players? I want to keep playing and finish the adventure, but it's becoming a slog, and I feel something needs to change. What are useful and constructive questions to ask my players, and what are good ways to make your game more engaging?

First, WHY do you want to "finish the adventure"? I am making the assumption that you want to finish it "as expected"...or, what is written down in it (encounters, bad guys, locations, plot hooks, etc).

Second, now that you answered that in your own head...does that sound reasonable to you?

Third, ignore both one and two. Now stop referring to the book. Next, make some sh'tuff up! The drag/slog I think you are feeling is because "you already know the ending...and you, and your players, are just trying to make sure all the pieces fall into place as expected", believing that concluding the "adventure" will somehow magically feel fulfilling even though you already know everything in advance.

One of the...scratch that... THE biggest problem I have with modern day "adventures" is that they aren't "adventures" so much as they are an expanded form of "choose your own adventures...but with the drawback that the DM will never be surprised. They may be great stories...but they won't be YOUR stories, they won't be the stories that YOUR Players told; just a story that was thought up, written down, and detailed out for you to 'go through'.

My suggestion is thus: Don't use it as a story as-is. Use it as a backdrop. Use the maps, the monsters, the NPC's, etc, as "pieces" that you have access to. Now just start WINGING IT! You already know the expected storyline...now give it the middle finger and do your own thing! ROLL SOME DICE! RANDOM DICE! I'm not even kidding. If the PC's say "Ok, we'll head out then I guess...", just think to yourself "1-3, nothing; 4-5, city officials bug them; 6, someone picks a fight"...then roll a d6. Go with that. That is all you need. Your players will automatically start "writing their own stories" about what just happened; USE THEM!!!

Player: "What the heck man! That noble sure had a stick up his bum! It wasn't even US who stole his prized peacock! I don't even know what a peacock IS! Hey...wait...are we being set up?"
DM: [...thinking to yourself... BINGO! Yeah! Cool! Lets do that!] "You notice a couple of those guys in the red belts a street down snickering at you..."
Player: "I knew it!"
...and then, as Gary so fondly said, "Let the chips fall where they may".

So that's it. Stop trying to "play the adventure" and start using the stuff in it to make your own story up. Just go with it. Roll with it and Role with it. Make notes. Don't sweat it if you introduce an NPC that isn't supposed to show up for another several sessions...so what? Work with it! Come up with WHY he/she might have shown up NOW...work with your mistakes and weave them into a NEW story. The bonus is...both your players and you will be pleasantly surprised about how much more exciting it is! Remember, back in the day, this was the norm. A page of notes, a handful of dice, some random tables, and a bucket load of imagination and "winging it". How else do you think D&D got so popular? It sure as heck wasn't "lets follow this other guys story to the letter for the next 8 months".

^_^

Paul L. Ming