How To Make Almost Everyone Happy

[joethelawyer]

After talking to my brother the other night, whom i've played dnd with for over 25 yrs, i realized yet again that my preferred system is still AD&D 1st ed. and his is 3.0.

tat got me thinking that i wished people still put out stuff for AD&D. i would love to see a great game from necromancer or goodman or paizo in the AD&D realm. since 4e though, no one is even supporting 3.0 or 3.5.

that me me wonder: why doesnt wotc put out any editions other than 4th? why not support all systems?

if they still put out the basic-to-master boxed sets, and the core books from 1ed thru 3.5, and maybe the boxed sets of greyhawk or forgotten realms, and sold pdf's of every other product ever made for each of those systems online from the wotc website, they would make a fortune.

at the same time all fans of all editions would be satisfied. everyone could play the system they liked the best, regardless of what is the latest greatest, or what won't be supported anymore so i may as well not play it. the fan/user base of ALL systems grow as new gamers try each one out and stick with the one that best suits their tastes. and that way new gamers can grow the user base of older systems, instead of it being supported by us old folks. that means those of us ho like the older systems can find new people to lay with a lot easier.

also, they could extend the OGL to the other game systems too, so that necro and goodman and paizo and everyone else here can create modules or expansion books for whatever system they choose, thus giving WOTC a reason to keep putting out the hardcover rules of every system. thus, rather than shrinking or dividing the marketplace when a new system comes out, like what happened with 4e, the market would grow.

i can't think of any downside to that scenario for anyone. everyone seems to bnefit. the fans of every system get to keep buying new stuff for that system. the fanbase of each system grows. third party publishers and wotc make even more money than before. the cost to wotc would be negligible to simply reprint what they already have in stock. as long as they produced what the market would purchase, and no more, they would end up wth a hefty profit.

additionally, wotc can even have special hardcover releases of classics like temple of elemetal evil, with some special ad-ons to it, like a new secret level or series of rooms by someone like erik mona or monte cook. they could recycle their older IP and continue to make a profit at very little cost.

am i crazy here or does this make sense for everyone?

 

[MerricB]

Please look at OSRIC and Castles & Crusades, two approaches to the problem.

 

[DaveMage]

am i crazy here or does this make sense for everyone?

That would indeed be the ideal for the fans, IMO.

However, I don't think it would be ideal for WotC - their margins are too tight, and the financial pressures too great to risk. Their strategy (as far as I can tell) is to maximize the revenue of the current edition. Anything that's produced for any other edition essentially competes with their main (4e) brand.

But, don't worry - when I win Powerball (tm) and buy D&D, I'll try to do most of what you suggest. Just be patient.

 

[Stalker0]

dnd is a small market, its hard enough making good money off one product, its a huge effort to make money off several, competing products.

And that's the thing, if WOTC created a 4e2 if you will, that would simply compete against their 4e currently. Not a good idea from a financial standpoint.

 

[tenkar]

Go to the ENWorld store and you'll find all the PDFs of all the earlier veriosn that you might ever want... I don't think its making WotC a boat load of money tho.

The problem with earlier editions from the POV of WotC is that it is not a growth market... old editions are a nitch in the nitch that is gaming on a whole.

Reprinting (not just PDF) actual harcover books is not cheap, especially with the limited numbers that would sell. Don't kid yourself, the numbers sold would be small, and the profit margin not much bigger.

Besides, why buy a new reprint when i can buy my out of print gaming material for less on ebay or in PDF format?

 

[Mark]

You'll be wanting this -

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads

 

[Filcher]

Isn't supporting 2 systems part of what killed TSR? I could be totally off base.

Anyhow, it bears mentioning that 3pps do still make AD&D adventures. C&C has been mentioned along with OSRIC, but Goodman Games also does a couple AD&D modules each year. I think 2 products (5 adventures) are being released at Gen Con.

 

[Henry]

Based on the comments of some of WotC's past Brand Managers, they've never seen this as a good idea because it splits the fanbase even more than it is now, to offer multiple system support for the same game. In other words, instead of (hypothetically) 100,000 people currently buying 4e, and 15,000 playing old 1e, and 5,000 playing OD&D, and 25,000 playing 3e, or what have you, you'd have 10,000 playing 1e, 10,000 playing 2e, 10,000 playing 3e, etc. And having to spend 5 or 6 times the development resources on all the different rulesets, and the designers being proficient in 5 or 6 different rule sets, instead of spending all the time and effort on one.

I'd be curious to see how a license to specific third party companies for each edition would float, but I think they probably see it as cutting off to much of their potential customers by doing so.

End Result: Praise the OGL for things like Castles and Crusades, and True 20, and Labyrinth Lord, etc. and all those other variants that can fill many niches without having to incur a huge overhead for one company.

 

[RFisher]

Reprinting (not just PDF) actual harcover books is not cheap, especially with the limited numbers that would sell. Don't kid yourself, the numbers sold would be small, and the profit margin not much bigger.

Right. Which is why you never saw reprints of classic Traveller—which certainly has a smaller market than OOP editions of D&D—on your FLGS’s shelves...wait...hmmm

It’d be as crazy as licensing AD&D to Kenzer and having them sell AD&D labelled as “Hackmaster”...wait...

I mean, you didn’t see a print run of the 1e PHB after 2e came out...wait...

And a game like T&T couldn’t have both a new edition and reprints of 5th edition in print at the same...wait...

And printing miniature reprints of all the 1e books and even miniature Moldvay Basic Sets with miniature box, miniature rule-book, and miniature B2? That’d never happ...wait...

^_^

(OK, I’m having fun, but I’m not convinced it is so clearly a bad idea.)

 

[joethelawyer]

Based on the comments of some of WotC's past Brand Managers, they've never seen this as a good idea because it splits the fanbase even more than it is now, to offer multiple system support for the same game. In other words, instead of (hypothetically) 100,000 people currently buying 4e, and 15,000 playing old 1e, and 5,000 playing OD&D, and 25,000 playing 3e, or what have you, you'd have 10,000 playing 1e, 10,000 playing 2e, 10,000 playing 3e, etc. And having to spend 5 or 6 times the development resources on all the different rulesets, and the designers being proficient in 5 or 6 different rule sets, instead of spending all the time and effort on one.

I'd be curious to see how a license to specific third party companies for each edition would float, but I think they probably see it as cutting off to much of their potential customers by doing so.

End Result: Praise the OGL for things like Castles and Crusades, and True 20, and Labyrinth Lord, etc. and all those other variants that can fill many niches without having to incur a huge overhead for one company.

i wasnt suggesting that wotc ever develop anything new for any ruleset or system other than 4e. all i suggested is that they republish in paper non electronic format the core rulebooks of al prior editions. let the 3pp's develop new stuff. or license a 3pp to reprint the core rules, paying wotc royalties. then allow others to develop for it under the ogl. who knows, some killer supplement might drive sales of the core rulesets of older editions and make wotc money even more money. as it stands now, wotc sits on IP that doesnt sell, and thus doesnt make them money. my ideas use their IP to make them money at little or no cost to them

the "fractured market so we all lose money" scenario doesnt fly with me. in a sense what i am suggesting is the same as expanding the ogl to everything ever made by wotc and tsr. the ogl made money for all involved and grew the market for 3.0 and 3.5 why wouldnt it do the same for prior editions? and if wotc licenses the republishing rights for a flat fee or a share of the royalties, no sweat off their back. they have free money in the bank for doing nothing essentially.

tsr lost money not because they supported 2 editions. they lost money because they put out crap products and made bad bad financial decisions. see the overview here:

http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0003c&L=dnd-l&D=1&F=&S=&P=9724

if someone competes against himself, who wins?