How to make D&D more political?

[pemerton]

D&D seems to be quest orientated - go to x, kill, fetch or otherwise do something to item/person/monster Y return for reward Z.
Personal goals seem to be more of a 'backstory' type thing and seem to be relegated there.

My games are probably more politically laden than some D&D games, but not necessarily in the "political intrigue" style you're looking for.

Here are some links to the sort of game I run with 4e. I certainly don't agree that personal goals have to be relegated to the background; I think they can be at the forefront of play. But D&D's action resolution mechanics tend to mean that things tend to very quickly turn violent or magical; and the greatest diplomats of the age are likely also to be the greatest warriors or wizards (think Aragorn, Farmir, Gandalf, Arthur, Robin Hood, Odysseus, etc).

In all honesty, I would think twice before running a political game with D&D. The assumed rapid escalation in PC abilities relative to everyone else creates problems - if the NPCs are lowish level then challenges that are tough at low level rapidly become trivial; if the NPCs are highish level, the question is likely to asked why they didn't dominate the PCs as soon as they came on the radar. And if the NPCs level up alongside the PCs, that runs the risk of cheapening the PCs' achievements

My personal solution to this problem is not to have the NPCs level up, but rather to scale up the opposition - at low levels, the politicking involves bandits, or petty death cultists, or whatever; then at mid-levels you tackle their Saruman-like wizard sponsors, etc; then at high levels you tackle Orcus himself. In other words, I think for political D&D to work it is better to embrace the gonzo cosmology than to try and work around it.

 

[Phototoxin]

lots

That's really helpful - I think I need to do a 'meta analysis' of the factions involved and take a step back to look at it from another perspective.

 

[Piratecat]

One idea: Check out the Story Hour sub-forum, initiated (if I understand correctly) by Piratecat. It includes stories (or is it merely links, now?) from his "Eversink" campaign, which was set in a reimagining of Venice, Italy (sinking into the Mediterranean); and the action was largely politics.

Hey, thanks!

I think D&D is fabulous for political games. No new mechanics are needed. I handle it like this:

- a set location, such as a decadent and rich city.
- 3-4 (no more) known power groups
- 1-2 (no more) secret power groups
- give every group a secret
- figure out what each group wants
- decide what they're willing to do to get it
- consider how they might use the PCs as tools/agents to do so
- think about how they'll respond if their enemies use the PCs as tools/agents
- give the PCs a reason to interact there

So let's take an ancient mountain town, famous because an angel was once seen there. Now it's a site for pilgrimages.

- known power groups: rich and greedy mayor, virtuous but rigid Knights of the Angel, charming and influential wizard north of town
- secret power groups: devil-worshipping faction that has infiltrated the knights, an actual disguised angel made humble and clothed in flesh
- secrets: mayor wants cash to secretly pay off monsters to stay away, protecting the town he loves; knights are jealous of pilgrims, considering them not worthy; "wizard" is a succubus who charms and drains every traveler who comes to her for a teleport; devil-worshipping leader having second thoughts, secretly seeking redemption but can't trust his advisor; disguised angel secretly judges each pilgrim to the town, seeking for One Foretold In Legend.

You get the idea. Establish a balance of power, then allow the PCs to smash it to flinders. What happens next, as NPCs scrabble for a new equilibrium, is the fun bit.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=2]Piratecat[/MENTION] Thats a nice point-by-point of setting up a political game!

I recall doing something similar...3-5 power groups with 1-3 connections between each group. So you might have "Mayor -- Wizard Succubus: mayor sends tribute via trusted spy to keep succubus quiet about the mayor's indiscretion with her, did their unnatural liaison produce a monstrous child?"

Detailing these power group interconnections really helped in the few political games I ran.

 

[haakon1]

My personal solution to this problem is not to have the NPCs level up, but rather to scale up the opposition - at low levels, the politicking involves bandits, or petty death cultists, or whatever; then at mid-levels you tackle their Saruman-like wizard sponsors, etc; then at high levels you tackle Orcus himself. In other words, I think for political D&D to work it is better to embrace the gonzo cosmology than to try and work around it.

That's also my approach. And it works best if the low-level monsters are a symptom of the bigger problem. My 'usual' approach is that low to medium-level adventures are cleaning up messes caused by some bigger threat. Like the Forge of Fury isn't just a dungeon with duergar and troglodytes. It's a REFUGE for duergar and trogs who are trying to rebuild after fleeing the Underdark. Fleeing who? Well, there's more adventure in figuring that out . . .

Which is to say, you can have "political elements" to the game -- duergar and trogs are allied against the Kingdom of the Ghouls and selling human slaves to the drow -- without having "politics" mean the Galactic Senate will now address the issue of tariffs on droid parts . . . or "wow, who is Jar-Jar having an affair with". Politics is also high politics -- affairs of state, alliances, wars, all the stuff that makes the "action scenes" in history.

 

[pemerton]

you can have "political elements" to the game -- duergar and trogs are allied against the Kingdom of the Ghouls and selling human slaves to the drow -- without having "politics" mean the Galactic Senate will now address the issue of tariffs on droid parts . . . or "wow, who is Jar-Jar having an affair with". Politics is also high politics -- affairs of state, alliances, wars, all the stuff that makes the "action scenes" in history.

Agreed.

 

[Rich Baker]

I would suggest trying something limited in scope to begin with: A political adventure, rather than a political campaign. It's not too intimidating if you take it in small bites.

First, present a "prize"--something that various factions are vying for in the immediate future. For example: The old Warden of the North has died in battle, and several powerful lords are maneuvering for this prestigious office. Or maybe it's time for the Council of Lords to elect a new High Counselor, and factions are forming in support of various candidates. Creating one specific event in the immediate future that needs to be resolved politically will let you keep your adventure moving toward a resolution instead of wandering around in perpetual one-upsmanship.

Second, it's OK if it's only 2 or 3 factions. Two factions trying to persuade various neutral parties to back their cause makes for plenty of politicking.

Next, identify several potential "swing votes" or key supporters who can be tilted to one side or the other, and identify what exactly can move them. This is where a party of D&D adventurers can make a difference. Can Lord Tilsworth be turned if someone steals evidence of his support for smugglers and threatens to expose him? Is someone on the other side planning to assassinate Duke Niles in a "hunting accident" unless the PCs can protect him? Can Lady Reisa's support be bought? And so on.

Anyway, keep it simple, and keep plenty of opportunity for "normal" D&D action mixed up in your politics and intrigues. See how it goes!


Rich Baker

I've been playing a fair amount of Rogue Trader (fantasy flight) and Lords of Waterdeep. I'm trying to figure out (for paragon) how to get the feel of political manoeuvring and influence over land while keeping away from 'money & management' type game.

Rogue trader allows for crazy elements of power (you have frigging space ships and infinite money) and tends to be more about personal goals. D&D seems to be quest orientated - go to x, kill, fetch or otherwise do something to item/person/monster Y return for reward Z.
Personal goals seem to be more of a 'backstory' type thing and seem to be relegated there.

Anyone else find this or have ideas to over come it? (Maybe I'm getting tired of DMing)

 

[Piratecat]

I would suggest trying something limited in scope to begin with: A political adventure, rather than a political campaign. It's not too intimidating if you take it in small bites.

Rich, minor fan boy moment here: you've designed some of my favorite games over the years (including the superb Will and the Way). Great to hear your advice, and welcome!

 

[haakon1]

Indeed, welcome Rich.

I was trying to form a good reply to your post -- seemed to perhaps imply a "democratic" or consensus style of government that might be too "modern" for many D&D societies -- but then I noticed it was your first post and thought I'd say "welcome" instead.

And then I noticed who you are.

 

[Rich Baker]

Hey, thanks for the kind words! The Will and the Way was a lot of fun (but that was a looong time ago now!)


Rich

Rich, minor fan boy moment here: you've designed some of my favorite games over the years (including the superb Will and the Way). Great to hear your advice, and welcome!