How to make int not a dump stat?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I hate that unless your a class that has abilities or powers based on int, int is a complete and total dump stat.

I've been racking my brain trying to think of ways to make int more generally useful without overpowering wizards, tactical warlords, and swordmages...and I'm really coming up empty right now.

Anyone have any good houserules they like to use for this?

I think there are no good houserules. Only Constitution and Dexterity have a special relevance due to the fact that Con affects hit points and healing surge and Dexterity affects initiative.

You could introduce more feats that rely on Intelligence. But I think this will just give Warlords, Wizards, Swordmages and Warlocks more choices, not change your average Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Cleric or Paladin.
And if it does, maybe you just introduced something a little too powerful?


But I think that is not a real problem. It's no worse then Strength, Wisdom or Charisma. You will see "smarter" characters if you have more classes that also rely on Intelligence.

One thing you could consider is creating alternate class options that focus on a "non-standard" ability score. A "smart" Rogue (you know, like they used to be in 3E). Or a "smart" Fighter (like the Fighters I played - I needed Combat Expertise or rather Improved Trip). But this would still require someone to play that specific character build.

The only reason INT was not a dump stat for most classes in 3E was because it affected your skill points. And that was a very powerful benefit, but it only worked since everyone had too few skill points to get what people think was "needed" - maxing skills and getting synergy bonuses.
If you don't want more skills trained, consider improving Jack of all Trades (how about a +3 bonus) and Skill Focus (that's a stretch).

 

[FunkBGR]

Sorry - I should clarify.

What about making INT to Initiative instead of DEX to Initiative.

Back in 3.0/3.5, we did WIS to Initiative instead of Dex, and it worked fine (reasoned it was based on reaction time rather than how fast you were).

 

[Lakoda]

This is one of the reasons I generally dislike Intelligence as a ability score. Int is so hard to roleplay, unless your character is dumber then you are. But that is a horse of another color. I don't know if Int needs much, I have a lot of problems with players dumping Str and buying a cart.

Something I barely remember from 3x was using knowledge checks for a 1 round +1 to d20 rolls. Example: your advanced knowledge of Architecture makes you suspicious of this hall way, you receive +1 to AC against traps or +1 to disable traps. Something like that. Only I'd say screw the knowledge skills (as Nature and Dungeoneering are Wis now) and just do a flat Int check.

 

[Stalker0]

I guess the reason I don't have as big a problem with str being a dump stat is that it doesn't effect your roleplaying. Having an 8 int means you are dumb, and should act accordingly, but many a times people will drop the 8 bomb on the stat and still act normal.

Back to the houserules, I think add a number of trained skill equal to your int mod is way way too good, wizards will become the best skilled characters.

I did create a "mastermind" rogue in my game, he gets all the benefits of the other 3 rogue types, but uses half his int mod as his charisma or strength mod for purposes of prereqs and powers. So if he used positioning strike for example, he would use half his int mod instead of charisma. Basically the rogue is a lot more versatile but not as straight up powerful.

I also lowered jack of all trades prereqs to int 12 instead of 13. That's just a bit more encouragement for players to get a least a little int, and it doesn't effect the int based classes at all.

If I took dex away from initiative I think that would make a lot of my players angry who have dex heavy classes. I could allow initiative for either int or dex, that would beef the wizard but not that much, and its something.

I think ultimately there needs to be new fighter type feats with int 13+ prereqs so fighters are encouraged to get more int but it doesn't effect the other classes.

 

[Paul Strack]

I guess the reason I don't have as big a problem with str being a dump stat is that it doesn't effect your roleplaying. Having an 8 int means you are dumb, and should act accordingly, but many a times people will drop the 8 bomb on the stat and still act normal.

I think this is the core of your problem right here. If you re-think what Int means so that it isn't a role-playing hindrance, then the problem will go away.

I don't force my PCs with low Int to play stupid. I consider Int to measure "mental agility" and facility with knowledge skills rather than general cleverness. I let a character will low Int to still be as clever as the player is (and high Int characters can be stupid as well).

[Edit] There are plenty of examples of this in fiction. The too-smart-for-his-own-good wizard or scientist is a common trope, someone who is a knowledgeable idiot, and there are plenty of "Joe normal" characters that are consistently coming up with clever plans because they have street smarts or common sense.

 

[666Sinner666]

I think ultimately there needs to be new fighter type feats with int 13+ prereqs so fighters are encouraged to get more int but it doesn't effect the other classes.

Those "smart" fighters be Warlords mate. Then again they fill the leader role. Swordmages are int based defenders as well.

 

[Nur-ab-sal]

When selecting skills, you may select a number of cross-class skills equal to your int modifier (if any). You are still bound by the total number of skills allowed by your class and race.

This is a really interesting idea, although it makes the class skills list more-or-less irrelevant to wizards and taclords.

I grant extra languages to players with high Int, but that's b/c the specific campaign rewards it. I thought about granting extra trained skills (and reducing wizards and warlords' standard # of trained skills to compensate), too.

 

[inkpenavenger]

This is one of the reasons I generally dislike Intelligence as a ability score. Int is so hard to roleplay, unless your character is dumber then you are. But that is a horse of another color.

Quick question: How many people do you know in real life that act smarter than they are?

I guess the reason I don't have as big a problem with str being a dump stat is that it doesn't effect your roleplaying. Having an 8 int means you are dumb, and should act accordingly, but many a times people will drop the 8 bomb on the stat and still act normal.

An 8 in INT doesn't simply mean you're dumb, 8 is just slighty below average. Creatures don't start falling into the dumb category until an INT of 6 or lower (at least in my opinion).