Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Warlord Ralts said:
No save on zombie infection = bad.
Why not just a high save dc?
No rules for hitting the head = bad.
Tracking multiple damages = bad.
How about just giving them a high DR and allowing them to be critted?
How to make Zombies Deadlier?
- Thread starter blackshirt5
- Start date
No save on zombie infection = bad.
Why not just a high save dc?
No rules for hitting the head = bad.
Tracking multiple damages = bad.
How about just giving them a high DR and allowing them to be critted?
Ralts Bloodthorne
First Post
In the game it's designed for, it fits. It's not bad, just different.Saeviomagy said:
One word: Fear
Sorry, the rules are in the complete document. No offense, but I'm not posting the total document in here, it's 80 pages.
Why? We developed a simple way of keeping track of the multiple damages.
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In order: Head, neck, arm, chest, abdomen, legs.
Ten places. You write down where you took the damage. Not difficult and pretty common sense in Modern d20.
It's no worse than power armor damage in Rifts
Because it's not the same.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
If everyone bitten by a zombie is infected, then the game ceases to be entertaining, and ends up just being a tally of how much ammunition the party has left. Additionally it provokes the tactic of "he was bitten, so we kill him now, because nothing can save him anyway".Warlord Ralts said:
If only SOME people become infected, then the party can go through a few fights before someone gets gotten, and the tactic of killing someone when they're bitten becomes less applicable - they MAY not have the disease. We may be safe. Can we really countenance killing him in that case??
Last time I was in a game with a "save or die" monster, it DID become something I didn't want to face.
It DIDN'T become scary. It was just a stupid monster that I don't want to fight.
Yeah, but d20 is quick and clean. Rifts is awful. Location based damage is one of the reasons for that.
Beyond that you've got 'called shot to the head syndrome', where pretty soon, every attack is a called shot to the head.
Not to mention the fact that it would seem that in your system the zombie will effectively have over 10 times the hitpoints it would normally have. That makes for really long slogging battles.
Aim:
Zombies are hard to kill unless you hit them in the head.
Breakdown:
Hard to kill - you do less damage
Hit them in the head - cause a critical
You do less damage to zombies unless you cause a critical
1. Zombies are subject to critical hits
2. Zombies have lots of hitpoints/damage reduction/fast healing
It worked. I had zombies which took critical hits, and had fast healing, and only died when they reached -10. Sum effect was that if you caused crits, you were more likely to push them beyond -10. If you stopped to finish them off, you would stop them from standing up again. If you simply caused massive damage, they would stop.
Otherwise, they kept standing up. My players were totally confused by the concept of a zombie that you could critical, and never made the connection that the zombies were simply behaving like living creatures.
Ralts Bloodthorne
First Post
And there is a lot of things he can do in the 24-36 hours before he dies and comes back. Then it's the "Tragic Hero" syndrome.Saeviomagy said:
Believe me, the playtesters have all found it entertaining, even with the skill.
"He may be infected. Shoot him now." also comes in. Quite often.
Worried that you'd lose your character? Worried you'd blow a save?
That's called fear.
Once again, different tastes. Some gamers like a little bit of complexity. Not bad. Just different.
So? What's your point? That's why helmets are made.
And fighting these zombies should be easy?
Well, I'm glad you found something that worked.
That didn't work for what I was doing.
Playtesting with over 20 different groups showed the following:
The rules and zombies were appropriate for the campaign model.
Specific locational damage and injury was, in fact, the most popular rule in the book.
The fear that: "I've been bitten, I'm GOING to die. There isn't any saving me." made for the character taking chances, going for broke, and putting themselves in harms way, often in a heroic fashion. From holding the door shut while the zombies tried to break through and the rest of the part ran for it, to charging back through a pack of zombies to get the keys left in the doorway.
Like any game, I guess it depends on what the players and GM want.
Kesh
First Post
Borrow from all kinds of monster legends, not just zombies:
Use normal zombies. Then use normal zombies who can only be killed by fire/acid (ie. regeneration). Then use zombies that are intelligent and have class levels. Then use zombies that have special abilities (Jump +20 or Improved Sunder or spider climb as a spell-like ability). Then use zombies that have DR 10 / silver. Then have zombies that can only be fully destroyed if you perform a bless or gentle repose after they're reduced to 0 HP or below (otherwise they rise X rounds later). For fun, make them only fully destroyable with a blow to the head (ie a Crit or coup de gras).
Then, use them in new ways. Pit trap full of zombies. A stream or pool of water that a group of zombies emerge from, where they had been hiding. Mummified remains are really zombies, not true mummies.
The zombies are poisonous, or are being used as a magical 'culture' for a plague the bad guys want to unleash. The zombies do absolutely nothing while the PCs approach... then explode/release gasses/release spores/etc when touched or struck. Have the zombies start talking to the PCs. Make them require some kind of sustenence (flesh, blood, a specific plant, and so on).
Just stuff like that. Mix it up a little and watch the players try to figure out how to deal with this batch. If you do, though, they should have some way to identify the various kinds after a while.
Use normal zombies. Then use normal zombies who can only be killed by fire/acid (ie. regeneration). Then use zombies that are intelligent and have class levels. Then use zombies that have special abilities (Jump +20 or Improved Sunder or spider climb as a spell-like ability). Then use zombies that have DR 10 / silver. Then have zombies that can only be fully destroyed if you perform a bless or gentle repose after they're reduced to 0 HP or below (otherwise they rise X rounds later). For fun, make them only fully destroyable with a blow to the head (ie a Crit or coup de gras).
Then, use them in new ways. Pit trap full of zombies. A stream or pool of water that a group of zombies emerge from, where they had been hiding. Mummified remains are really zombies, not true mummies.
Corpses hanging from meathooks in a dungeon come alive and try to grapple anyone who gets too close.
Just stuff like that. Mix it up a little and watch the players try to figure out how to deal with this batch. If you do, though, they should have some way to identify the various kinds after a while.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Pants said:Here's a very easy solution:
1) Go buy either Tome of Horrors or Unapproachable East.
2) Find the entry for 'Ju-Ju Zombie'
3) Forget regular zombie entry
4) Use Ju-Ju
Hell, yeah
When 3E first came out, the low-level game I was running had an undead adventure - the party ended up in possession of an evil minor artifact that had the unfortunate side effect of animating any corpse within 60 feet (or something) as a zombie or skeleton, that proceeded to attack the bearer (who couldn't get rid of the artifact).They were under unending assault by rodent and bird skeletons - not dangerous, but rather a nuisance - and they caused quite a stir when they passed near an abbatoir. But fortunately, someone put together some of the history they'd heard about, and realised that taking the direct line frmo where they were to the evil temple the artifact had to be returned to... which crossed a region that had been the border of a major civil war several centuries earlier, full of ancient battlefields and long-forgotten mass graves... would be a Bad Idea.
So they took the long way round, and ran into the odd band of zombies or skeletons, which the cleric nuked with no major sweat.
But once they hit the temple itself (which was, naturally, Unhallowed or Desecrated or something), all the undead were Ju-Ju Zombies (converted from the 1E version), or an equivalently-powered Skeleton variant.
No more mindless shambling - these things were tough, and tactical.
I remember the ranger's triumphant "14 damage!", and telling him "It leers at you, chuckles, and throws a punch..."
Jaws dropped.
Damn near TPKed them, too... I think they ended up with one fighter conscious, and he happened to be the one with the magic slashing weapon that was doing credible damage to the things, and managed to keep them occupied long enough for the sorcerer (out of spells by then) to drag the unconscious ones to safety...
-Hyp.
talien
Community Supporter
The upcoming Blood and Brains: The Zombie Hunter's Guide to Zombies has over 20 zombie templates to play with: http://www.rpgobjects.com/index.php?page=pro&product_id=44
Coming...uh, soon!
Coming...uh, soon!
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Warlord Ralts said:
It was more "oh, great, here we go again. X (the current melee character) is going to die. Woohoo."
I mean sure in game it provoked responses analogous to fear - we did our best to avoid the threat or counter it in some non-melee way, but it never got my heart pounding.
Either we were in a position to escape, or we weren't - at which point it became the fall of the dice - dice which were being rolled by someone else. Which frankly doesn't thrill me at all.
At least if you make the infection follow the normal disease rolls, then the PC's have something they can contribute.
Just one thing - at a guess, your rules were developed for a one-shot. Would I be right?
francisca
I got dice older than you.
Give them super-stench:
When coming within 10 feet of them, make DC 20 Fort save. If you make it, you are only Sickened*: –2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
If they fail they are Nauseated*: Experiencing stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn.
*Per the SRD
When coming within 10 feet of them, make DC 20 Fort save. If you make it, you are only Sickened*: –2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
If they fail they are Nauseated*: Experiencing stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn.
*Per the SRD
