How To Resurrect D&D Miniatures

[Jools]

While not unexpected, the axing of the DDM line was a pretty sad day for gamers. While some pre-painted plastic alternatives exist they don't hold a candle to D&D minis. While the old model of business clearly went wrong, this doesn't mean that some alternative model couldn't potentially resurrect the line. Thats where this thread comes in. Surely we can come up with a winning idea or two.

From my observations it looked like the experiment with visible miniatures failed. Store shelves filled up with unicorns and aboleths that nobody wanted. So like it or not random booster packs are the way forward. Retailers don't have the hassle of choosing which individual minis to stock and (arguably foolish!) customers will buy large quantities of minis they wouldn't ordinarily purchase in the hope of randomly acquiring what they want. This of course (in part) subsidizes the cost of us well informed geeks who can buy precisely want we want from very reasonably priced sellers of singles (like RPG Locker).

Some of you are no doubt thinking: "But WOTC's last set was entirely random and still failed to rejuvenate the line - you're an idiot!". And yes, thats right, clearly more than that is needed. My idea for resurrecting the line is three fold.

1. Random boosters.

2. Include monster cards for the new D&D board games (Ravenloft and Ashardalon). Anecdotal reports indicate the new board game has been very successful selling out in many places when first released. Its a great game, and new monsters can be inserted into it very easily.

3. Included a second card providing stats for an all new D&D skirmish game, stealing ideas from all the best rival skirmish rules out there. There's nothing like a completive environment to boost sales as Magic has shown us.

I'd like to think that this would be enough to bring back the wonderful pieces of plastic crack that some of us are already missing. Including two cards for each mini in the booster would increase costs slightly but these could be of a pretty low quality (which the Ravenloft board game cards are already anyway). RPG stats could easily be provided online.

Whats your idea?

 

[Diamond Cross]

First of all, I personally hate random boosters, if they were the only thing being offered. That was one of my biggest complaints with the 3.5 minis packs.

The reason is because I didn't want to have to buy ten to fifteen packs of useless miniatures that I'd never use in order to get a half dozen Kobolds.

Now. if they offered both random and themed packs, I wouldn't mind. I'd buy both.

But if they only offered random, I wouldn't buy them any more.

 

[Jools]

Perhaps you have something against mail order, but seriously, check it out. Troll n Toad, Auggies and RPG Locker (link in first post) are really good.

 

[Stormonu]

If the random model comes back, I won't buy, and quite frankly I have enough already. I think that the semi-random sets were the worst idea of the whole line.

Non-random will work, but to make it work effectively, what your would get would have to be 3/4 usable or more. Packs of mixed monsters with a theme would probably work best. Say, something like several types of evil humanoids (2 orcs, 4 goblins and a bugbear), undead (4 skeletons, 2 zombies/ghouls and a vampire) or similar sets would attract attention (like the heroscape line, but more figures per set).

Second, there has to be something to do with them - immediately (and preferably, over and over). If each set came with a quick set-up encounter, mini-game or if the miniature game were re-established, that would be a big plus.

The third and fourth hurdle is price & quality. While the original DDM line started out kinda crappy (with Harbinger), each set got better and better in appearance - up to a certain point; then they just started getting really poor again. At the same time boosters were getting more expensive and/or you got fewer minis. By the time of the last few sets it really felt like to me that with the combination of poor mini quality and small number of minis per package, it just wasn't worth the cost.

Finally, the last issue is saturation. Even with the line discontinued, there are plastic minis still available anywhere. And many former collectors have mounds of the plastic stuff with little or no reason to use them. Until the older "quality" minis are more difficult to obtain, issuing a new line will not likely attract many sales.

 

[shadzar]

First get a chicken, I prefer 12 piece bucket form KFC cause it has biscuits and gravy, mmmm gravy; then you take it to Washington and try to bribe WotC with it.

If that fails you take home the bones and position them around a mini in an alchemy circle and chant the following for about 10 minutes:

O-wah Tay-gu Siam

If that fails then you are pretty much screwed, because WotC will not accept or understand that the randomized model jsut doesn't work for this, and only works for Clix because the lines of Super Heroes keeps it strong enough that someon bought the failing WizKids from Topps.

If they ever figure out that unpainted plastic, non-random minis can sell, such as the board games are showing as some are claiming to buy it only for the minis, then the live will be revived in a new fashion that will work for both company and players alike, at a price point both can agree on.

I mean 45 minis for $65 is $1.50 per mini alone, and you can throw away the rest of the Rvenloft game and not be too worried about it. Plus it costs les for developing such games and selling the minis themselves like that requiring less packaging and box art, means you could cut the cost down to that needed for jsut the minis, and sell more. But Alas WotC cannot get out of randomized crap model as they are trying to find a way to add it back to D&D no matter what. (See Fortune Cards)

Expansions for games like Ravenloft that contain a few minis still within that $1.50 per mini price range, might be the only hope of the minis line being resurrected. Those liking the board game will have new encounters to run with it and some new minis to use with them, others can throw away the encounters and get decent minis knowing what they are buying. 10 orcs for $15 for example.

This will even allow this "board game" to sell in more locations than just game/hobby stores, so that the audience will be broad enough to make the lines be carri4ed in board game sections of Walmarts and Targets, etc....where board games are sold....

Main thing, get the "random" mentality firmly slapped out of the heads of people at WotC, or they wont have a chance in hell of coming back.

 

[Dausuul]

A while ago, someone suggested non-random commons and random rares. So, for example, you buy an Orc pack and you get a known set of commons--so many orc archers, so many orc soldiers--and a randomly selected hidden rare.

 

[JustKim]

I agree that the market is already saturated, and I think the line fell apart because WotC was selling mostly the same sorts of miniatures to mostly the same people.

But please, can we give the complaints about random packs a rest? The solution is right there in your face. You ignore it by choice. You can buy them individually, everyone knows that you can, every time this complaint is raised someone is quick to point that out. For crying out loud it was pointed out preemptively in the first post. I'm willing to bet you are hemorrhaging PMs from helpful people pointing out where to buy them.

You are driving me insane.

 

[thewok]

I think it's funny. The board games are proving that non-random minis will sell. By all accounts, the Castle Ravenloft game has sold really well. It's a great game. It also has the side effect of providing 40 miniatures for your tabletop game. Not only that, but you get multiples of 3 for the common monsters, which makes it even more attractive. (You also get some nifty dungeon tiles you can play with, but that's not germane to the discussion.) There's also the fact that the plastic used for the Ravenloft minis seems more sturdy and higher quality than the plastic used for the normal minis.

I'll be picking up Wrath of Ashardalon next month mostly for the minis. I'll play the game, sure. But, the minis are what I really want.

There is also the concept of added value. I think dropping the skirmish game was a mistake. The skirmish game gave a dual purpose to each mini: it could be used in the skirmish game, and it could be used in the tabletop game. Once the skirmish game was stopped, the people who bought the minis for the game stopped buying (or just bought older boosters), and those who did both saw their future purchases have less personal value.

But then there are people like me, who want bulk amounts of the same mini, but don't want to buy randomized boosters because the chance of getting something usable for the tabletop game is very low. I need large amounts of kobolds, orcs, goblins, bugbears, elementals, and so on. I don't need a bunch of aboleths, gith, warforged, and other things that just don't pop up in the games I play.

I think a future mini line would have to be in two parts:

First, they need to restart the skirmish game. And they need to treat it with the same love that they show for Magic. Friday Night Magic? Why not Tuesday Night DDM or something? Make it just as competitive as Magic is. People will play it. This approach would call for random boosters as before. The key would be to maintain the support for the game to keep it interesting.

Second, there needs to be a line for the RPG game. These can be unpainted, but they must come in packs containing multiples, and they need to be non-random. You can have your Beholder Collectors Sets, your Orcus minis, your Legend of Drizzt sets, and so on. But the main thing is to keep this line inexpensive and non-random.

I think that's it. I think support for the skirmish game is really the key to keeping a future line going. If WotC can convince the players that they love DDM like the love Magic, then people will drop the money to play it.

But they can't simply make one line of minis and expect both camps of mini buyers to keep putting down cash. There will be some crossover, yes (I'd play the mini game if it was supported well), but for the most part, the two camps are looking for very different things in miniatures. You can't satisfy both with one line.

And I think it's been proven that you really need both camps to make it profitable.

 

[shadzar]

But they don't need the skirmish game now, and the board game replaces it for dual function use of the minis. Plus the are learning that they CAN reduce the number of SKUs with non-random minis.

How many re-issued rares from old DDM sets are in Ravenloft? Zombie Dragon for one...but there was more than one dragon and more than one old DDM as a rare.

I don't care for the game, but am trying to buy it for the minis when I can find it again,a nd will likely pick up the enxt one myself, depending on what minis is in it.

As for "lay-off the random cause you can buy singles", if that worked, they would still be selling random boosters and the secondary market would jsut open them and sell them as singles. Obviously the secondary market really isn't strong enough to support random like that. Once people stopped buying random due to saturation, or lack of interest in the mounatains of wasted platics and stupid sculpts/minis the market died.

Random is NOT the way for minis as they take up more cost and space for a player than a CCG ever will. Hell the minis take up exces space sicne the minis came with cards jsut like magic, and everyone doesnt have that much space, and sorting large amounts to find something is time consuming no where near worth the cost of getting random stuf you have no use for as opposed to CCGs which take up little space for the things you dont want and leaving an entire pack of a CCG game on the counter after purchase isnt as painful as triple that price for leaving behind minis you have no need for.

When people learned the commons and uncommon were useless filelr to pad the set with numbers and only the rares were needed, people quickly learned agaisnt the random model for RPG use, as they would never be able to get waht they needed for a reasonable price.

Buying a metal mini of exactly what you need and having someone paint it could cost the same for the same quality as a random booster, BUT you get something EXACTLY what you want out of it.

RAndom is NOT the way to go unless you have the support to back it up like was mentioend with FNM.

Also the plastic may have changed in the Ravenloft board game due to not having to paint them, so they could use cheaper plastics as it didnt have to be safe for the paint, and didnt have to be safe with the paint so that it wasn't hazardous if someone or their kid stuck it in their mouth.

 

[wedgeski]

Why are there still people saying "the random model doesn't work"? The random model worked just fine. In fact it worked brilliantly and obviously made Wizards a ton of cash for 7+ years, or however long the line lasted. Rising costs, a saturated market, and simple product fatigue killed DDM, nothing more and nothing less. The way to resurrect the line is simply to let it lie for a few years.