D&D 5E How to run a successful "poisoned NPC" scene in 5e?

[Nebulous]

Sorry, I missed this comment before. I'm running a pseudo-Egyptian setting embracing D&D's built-in magic (sans the "named" spells like Leomund's, etc., and with a few unique setting spells). The ruler (pharaoh) can cast greater restoration, an allied high priest likely to be present can cast it, and there are a few ranking priests in his palace who can cast it. So even if I could devise a narrative explanation why greater restoration is necessary, it's entirely what @aco175 said that the players would be right to expect the ruler to get that spell cast on him right quick.

Ok, good points then, then changing the magic won't help in this situation at all.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Seems a fairly simple matter just to introduce some special high-power, magically resistant poison; something that might also even be part curse or spell or magic item. Particularly considering that rulers of fantasy kingdoms might be normally expected to have poison-curing magic around. One way to handle it: The ruler collapses during some public event, and is immediately attended to by court priests / physicians. Maybe the healers can only keep the effects from worsening at the moment. A few days pass by, and the would-be assassin is still at large. While the ruler is incapacitated their court runs amok, everyone at each other's throat trying to jockey for power and influence in the present vacuum. Maybe an advisor takes the PCs aside and quietly tells them that accusations have been levelled in their direction. The authorities don't believe that the PCs are at fault, but certain prominent individuals have been trying to stir up public resentment against them. The advisor recommends that the PCs leave town for a while.

Maybe the authorities try to enlist the PCs in tracking down leads if you want to go that direction; or maybe they just recommend a temporary absence.

 

[Flamestrike]

The ruler (pharaoh) can cast greater restoration, an allied high priest likely to be present can cast it, and there are a few ranking priests in his palace who can cast it.

And I presume the poisoner knows this fact, so they would have tracked down a poison that is not curable by magic, or else why even bother?

Such a poison would be rare (maybe it only comes from a very specific place, at a very specific time of year, and the secret to preparing it only a handful of people know), and provides a great hook if you want the PCs to explore who poisoned the King, and why.

Heck, you want them out of the Kings palace and out exploring? Have the Kings viziers tell the PCs this after the poisoning:

''The King has been poisoned by the venom of a night asp, blessed by Set, and harvested on the night of the new moon by a priest of the Jackal headed God. The ancient sect of Hasashi assassins are the only ones who know how to refine the venom into a poison so potent, mortal magic cannot provide the antidote. The cure [insert ingredients/ recipe here] is the only way to do that. Those ingredients/ that recipe can only be found at [adventure location].

Go now adventurers; the Kings life depends on you!''

 

[Paul Farquhar]

And I presume the poisoner knows this fact, so they would have tracked down a poison that is not curable by magic, or else why even bother?

This. It is obvious that in a world where poison can easily be cured by magic people are going to develop poison that can't be cured by magic.

 

[MarkB]

Here's a nasty concept: A two-component poison. The first component is mundane, and will kill slowly over [PLOT] number of days. The second component is magically activated - it remains dormant until it is exposed to nearby restoration magic, at which point it activates to immediately deliver a powerful and deadly corrosive effect before the spell can finish casting.

 

[Flamestrike]

This. It is obvious that in a world where poison can easily be cured by magic people are going to develop poison that can't be cured by magic.

And as an added bonus, the slowly dying poisoned King is the Doom clock to frame the next half a dozen or so combat encounters in.

 

[Quickleaf]

Here's a nasty concept: A two-component poison. The first component is mundane, and will kill slowly over [PLOT] number of days. The second component is magically activated - it remains dormant until it is exposed to nearby restoration magic, at which point it activates to immediately deliver a powerful and deadly corrosive effect before the spell can finish casting.

That's sweet - uh, I mean, that's nasty!

What I love about your idea is that you took the reasonable but unexplored premise that others were saying (i.e. in a world of magic, it seems likely assassins would have devised poisons/toxins that don't respond to curative spells) and you ran with it in a way that has an in-game explanation. You didn't stop at "because" or "it's magic", but you pushed it a step further and got something really devious.

 

[MarkB]

That's sweet - uh, I mean, that's nasty!

What I love about your idea is that you took the reasonable but unexplored premise that others were saying (i.e. in a world of magic, it seems likely assassins would have devised poisons/toxins that don't respond to curative spells) and you ran with it in a way that has an in-game explanation. You didn't stop at "because" or "it's magic", but you pushed it a step further and got something really devious.

It's because I've experienced the alternative, from both sides of the DM screen, and it always feels a little hollow. When players have a toolset that allows them to accomplish certain things, and you just tell them "sorry, it just won't work in this case" it builds up resentment because you're basically invalidating their choices and capabilities.

But when you present it as some clever, scheming NPC having specifically looked at the things people like the PCs can do and developed countermeasures that aren't just a "gotcha", you can keep that hostility in-character, being directed by the character against the NPC who has come up with the workaround, instead of by the player against the DM.

 

[jgsugden]

When we introduce things that negate player abilities, we diminish our heroes. It tells the players, "You're here to play my story, to live in my world, and anything you build, I can take away whenever it is convenient. In short, you're my toys."

I can remove curses!

Nah, Bro. I have a curse based storyline in mind, so I'm just going to take that away from your PC by saying this curse is immune to you spell.

I can cure poison!

Nah, Bro. I have a poison storyline in mind, so I'm just going to take that away from your PC by saying this super poison can't be cured with a spell.

This is the same problem that made Superman boring for so long in comics. His only vulnerabilities were Kryptonite and Magic. For a long time, every enemy he faced was using one of those two abilities. Superman isn't Superman if Superman is always facing Kryptonite. Your cleric does not have the divine granted powers to cure disease, poison and curses if you make the disease, poison and curses immune to his power. Your cleric is not a cleric if you negate his abilities. Let the cleric shine!

You can go to that well once or maybe twice a campaign, but I really try not to use it at all. Poison based storylines work well at levels 1 and 2. After that, the heroes have grown beyond poison being a long term threat. Let them have that growth - because the growth is what makes them feel like big dang heroes.

After 5th level. curses are not a long term threat. They can be a short term threat, because few PCs will have remove curse available without taking a Long Rest, but by 9th level they will often have greater restoration available to stop a curse as soon as they hear about it. Don't negate their abilities by saying This curse ignores your abilities. Let them have grown beyond curses.

Tell these stories when it is appropriate to do so, and then move on to more advanced stories that capitalize upon their current abilities. When PCs gain new cures, divinations, movement, etc... that negate threats, they also open up new storyline possibilities. They are worthy of facing off against threats that are greater than a poison, disease or curse - so throw those things at them.

Does this mean that poison, disease and curses have no role above 3rd/5th/9th levels? Of course not.

Few PCs (although definitely some) are immune to poison. They can suffer short term impacts from poison. And NPCs can be killed using poison. It becomes more flavor and nuisance, but it still has a role.

A disease can spread in a community faster than clerics can cure it, too. That gives the PCs a different story - there are 8 NPCs with a disease that will kill them in the next 6 hours - and they can only cure 5. Can they find 3 more cures? And if they do, who is going to die in the place of these NPCs? There is no time foe a long rest....

A curse can be easily cured by a remove curse spell - but what if the curse is a blessing and a curse at the same time and people have different ideas on whether it should be cured or not? A cursed being that can't die regardless of their wounds. A cursed being that can feel no pain. A cursed being that knows neither joy nor sorrow. How does the cursed being think or feel about their curse?

What if the mixed blessing also impacts others? The high priest knows neither joy nor pain - his acolytes feel it for him.

There are a lot of things you can do with mechanics even if the PCs have a tool to 'fix' a problem. Try looking for the more interesting 'advanced' storyline rather than negating the PC abilities.

 

[Istbor]

We use a houserule condition called "Doomed". Somebody who is Doomed is going to die; there's nothing you can do to change that. It's written in the stars -- the wounds to their body or spirit are too previous. It's a condition that the DM can give to NPCs. Great for those "dying words" scenes without the PCs suddenly ruining all the drama.

I am interesting in how you introduced this houserule to your group. Or if you didn't do the introduction, how it was done?