D&D General How to work with players who wont accept any setbacks/defeat?

[p_johnston]

So I've noticed a feature of my group, with some players being worse then others, that as a whole they would rather get their characters killed (up to and including a campaign ending TPK) rather than accept any sort of defeat or setback.

This came to a head last session when the party was more willing to have a character effectively die rather then give up the ingredients to make 2 potions they had gathered that session. This is just one example of many that has come up.

I admit I tend to run harder games/battles in general but i also try to give players an out or a way to fail forward, but its hard to do so if it feels like they'll only accept totally victory or death.

Has anyone else had a similar problem or just any general advice?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Has anyone else had a similar problem or just any general advice?

Ah, yes, the "charge and never fall back" issue!

Just keep killing them and spending the time making up new PCs. Comment how it is so much more fun to actually play instead of just making up PCs. Maybe they will learn that keeping their PCs alive should be objective #2 (after having fun, of course).

 

[beancounter]

It sounds like a passive aggressive attempt to get you to back off.

Personally, I would let them die. Eventually, if they stick around, they'll get the message, and stop that behavior.

 

[FrogReaver]

So what do you currently do when those situations come up? Do you kill the PC? Do the players seem to resent that?

Some players have no issue with their PC dying for a cause, even a seemingly trivial one. If that’s your players then I wouldn’t worry. If they take issue then there’s a number of reasons it could be. Figure out the reason then an appropriate solution should come easily enough.

 

[p_johnston]

It sounds like a passive aggressive attempt to get you to back off.

Personally, I would let them die. Eventually, if they stick around, they'll get the message, and stop that behavior.

So the funny thing is Ive straight up asked tgem before "do you want me to dial it back." And was told its fine.

 

[J-H]

Are these teenagers by chance?

 

[overgeeked]

So I've noticed a feature of my group, with some players being worse then others, that as a whole they would rather get their characters killed (up to and including a campaign ending TPK) rather than accept any sort of defeat or setback.

Yep. Gamers.

This came to a head last session when the party was more willing to have a character effectively die rather then give up the ingredients to make 2 potions they had gathered that session. This is just one example of many that has come up.

Players like three thing more than anything else. Agency, accomplishing things, and not wasting time.

If they spent the session gathering ingredients, that’s accomplishing something. If you then try to take those away you’re flipping that accomplishment into wasted time.

Yeah, they’re going to fight you on that.

I admit I tend to run harder games/battles in general but i also try to give players an out or a way to fail forward, but its hard to do so if it feels like they'll only accept totally victory or death.

Yeah, that’s gamers.

Has anyone else had a similar problem or just any general advice?

Yep. Every time I play with gamers. Try finding players who are more interested in the drama, story, and roleplaying than winning the game.

 

[pogre]

Let them win or change players. There is a mismatch of expectations here.

 

[Oofta]

Discuss it with them as if they were reasonable adults. Try to have an open discussion and ask leading questions, like "last session you ____ and it meant your PC died. What do you think should have happened?" Try to have an open discussion and avoid any kind of blame game. If that doesn't work and they'd rather die than admit defeat then they die.

Rinse and repeat all steps until you have a resolution.

 

[Fanaelialae]

@p_johnston What were the circumstances surrounding this "your potion ingredients or your life" scenario?

I ask because one of the reasons I've seen players behave this way is due to the DM trying to subvert their agency.

From one of my own experiences, the DM contrived an encounter where he intended that our PCs would be captured. When, despite an absolutely overwhelmingly designed encounter, we actually managed to persevere, he contrived to have the enemy threaten an incapacitated PC with a poison he made up on the spot that instantly killed with no saving throw (this was 3e, where every poison had a DC, even if it was impossibly high). We refused to surrender, he killed the PC, and the players basically just rebelled and declared the campaign over.

I'm not saying you are doing anything like that.

However, as I said, I have seen that kind of behavior as a reaction to heavy handed plot hammering.

If that's not the case, then you may simply need to follow through. After all, death is one form of defeat, and if the player chooses that route then validate their agency and follow through.