How Would You Defend A Mountain Fortress? (Volume II)

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Ah, that's some sharp thinking Maldur! Very good! Indeed, that may well work to overload their clerics. After all, their clerics can die in combat, too! Once their clerics are killed, or busy trying to heal diseases, they can't also be casting a bunch of defensive spells protecting the front ranks of the troops, or casting Blade Barriers and Flame Strikes against onrushing vampire-knights, now can they? Got to choose...got to choose...

In addition, Sarrellion, pulling some political coups and assassinations in the Vallorean homeland may be effective in drawing off some resources. Not necessarily forces directly available for the front, but potentially troops and resources that might have been available for reinforcements or for special operations. Some homeland sabotage and some deception campaigns designed to sow dissension, rivalry, suspicion, and so on, couldn't hurt any. It probably wouldn't cause any serious lasting effects, but combined with other types of operations, all going on at the same time, it may indeed contribute to a range of operations that can combine to create circumstances of opportunities for the forces of Galleran! Good thinking! Remember, the forces of Galleran need to harness every resource and every stratagem that they can if they are to even hope for a victory, or at least a long, hard, and costly campaign that even if the Valloreans win, that the vampire king can gather his generals, marshal his other resources, and gain some kind of strategic advantage. There are several theaters of operation here, and long-term planning involved. Every angle can be analysed and chewed on for possible benefit!

Mmadsen, I love the idea of armoured fire giants carrying fiery steel balls to throw at the party! That is great! Think of good armour, some loaded weaponry and special skills and abilities, and I am sure a team of 20, 30, 40 giants, either all fire, or mixed in with other supporting forces, carefully selected, can provide many opportunities to damage the enemy! Imagine the arrows that giants like that can fire! Let alone what they can do with a +4 Unholy/flaming burst/wounding greatsword!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Vurt]

Zenon! You made me choke on my soda! Great visuals! Threshers indeed! Right on target friend, right on target! Many Vallorean Legionnaires would likely pray that the people being slaughtered back home be welcomed into the afterlife with joy, and that their sacrifice is not in vain...therefore they must speed up the attack, and exterminate the enemy in front of them all the faster, except now with even more ruthlessness! For every good, holy, righteous Vallorean killed by the wicked enemy, a price of 10 or 20 of the enemy shall be extracted...the Romans slaughtered half of the population of Carthage, enslaved the other half, and destroyed Carthage to the very ground, salting and tilling the very soil to make it a savage wasteland, where no living creature could live...such is the fate of any city in Galleran that may resist too ferociously! The Lord-General may decide to have 20 or 30 thousand Galleran humans or Hobgoblins, or Beastmen, crucified along the roads leading to and from the besieged city...The Vallorean soldiers could be expected to become even more grim, ferocious, determined, and ruthless.

Oh my, it almost sounds like you're replacing one evil empire with another! How much longer before the Valloreans BECOME their enemy? The long, slow road to ultimate EEEEVILLLL may not be through winning the war at all, but through losing it with bloody abandon!

 

[Sarellion]

If we don´t use the land and animals we could poison it. Destroy the land where the Legions must pass through and make it a poisonous wasteland, where human life can not survive unaided. I am not sure what you could cast as protection against it. You would have to remove the poison itself. Then we could perhaps use the undead against them as they are already dead.
Cast the spell before the legions enter so they cannot dispel it as it is cast.

I think you have to use some kind of epic spell for it but the effects should not be magical by a spell. Let it rain acid, poison and disease (some lingering spores in the land and air). The atmosphere should be poisoned by the fumes from lakes of toxic fliuds and spores. Be sure to keep distance between your positions and the scorched earth.
This should have an effect on morale. Humans are not so comfortable if they are on life support which could fail any moment.
Perhaps a rain of disjunction on the legions would be really funny. As the clerics scramble to recast whatever protections are available, an assault would be possible and most devastating.

Can you use gates to open to the elemental plane of fire to let the fire and magma of the plane come to the other side? There is nothing in the description of the spell that indicates otherwise. Open as many as you are able to over the legions. Some of them will burn to death. If they already have enough fire protection against it, try water. I think they will appreciate the drink.

If it is possible sneak near the camp to do this

It is sad that the gate can´t be opened as large as you wish. Otherwise you could call a whale who will fall on the troops. At least they would get some different meat.

I am not sure if thenext idea would be possible because of the magic circle and righteous aura effect but nonetheless.
Cast an epic spell which raises the aggressiveness of the legions but against each other. They only get the worst possible meaning of what other people say. The spell should lower their morale so that they think they are doomed, their officers are crap, something like this.
The final effect should be that they go on each others throats.
The spell must be really difficult to detect if it is possible to cloak it somehow.
I don´t have the ELH, so I can´t design it. So I can only give some suggestions.

Put up a sign: "You have just entered hell on earth. Welcome" for flavor.

 

[Maldur]

Divert a stream from one valley to the next. One approarch will be dry ( and flammable with the help of some firegiants) the other valley will be very muddy and wet (combined with cattle carcasses disease ridden).

Undermine mountain passages, making progress through the area slow. rig traps and drop cliffs. Make the dangers diverse and varied. One day several threats, the other day nothing. Make them wary and tired.

Use cliffs for ambushes, throw down rocks and boulders.

Make eversmoking bottles with poisonous clouds iso regular smoke. fill caverns with the poisoned gas.

Hit the legions with ranged attacks for a while then assault up close. Do the reverse on other units.

Let mountainpasses cave in after some legions passed. cut them off.

ps All ideas to use against the legions. The heroes I dont know?
Eleborate traps and ambushes? Turning them would be the best. A known hero turned blackguard would destroy moral.

 

[mmadsen]

Oh my, it almost sounds like you're replacing one evil empire with another! How much longer before the Valloreans BECOME their enemy? The long, slow road to ultimate EEEEVILLLL may not be through winning the war at all, but through losing it with bloody abandon!

I doubt SHARK'll ever see it that way, but to the rest of us, they already seem Lawful Neutral, maybe Lawful Evil -- except that they're officially Lawful Good; it's what their character sheets say!

 

[mmadsen]

Still the first day the squads get sick.

Perhaps I'm making the mistake of mixing real-world notions of disease with a D&D game, but what disease is going to spread fast enough that Clerics will ever need to cure more than one guy per day? An epidemic only gets to that stage by growing exponentially. If we can get a highly-contagious disease to infect most of the Valloreans at once, we've got something. If we can't skip straight to that stage though, they can squash it early.

 

[Twinswords]

There is a spell in masters of the wild with that effect.

Twinswords

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

LOL!!! Well, indeed, does the Vallorean Empire appear to be Lawful Evil to many of you? Or Lawful Nuetral?

Indeed, though I enjoy sharp distinctions, and courageous, noble heroism, and the defeat of evil, there is still room for some moral ambiguity, heh?

However, it should be noted that the Vallorean Empire certainly considers itself the ultimate in Goodness and Righteousness. They claim to much of the following attributes:

(1) They zealously wage war against all evil kingdoms that they are in contact with, or have reasonable geographical access and ability to wage war against;

(2) The support the Rule of Law;

(3) They support the concept of The King's Justice for all citizens, whether they be male or female, rich or poor, native or foreign born;

(4) They have outlawed the institution and practice of private slavery;

(5) They support a capitalist economy, where anyone--regardless of race or heritage, is permitted to freely pursue lawful commerce with a minimum of Imperial taxation;

(6) The Emperor supports the independent authority and sanction of the Imperial Magisterium;

(7) Soldiers do not have the right to quarter themselves upon the population without proper authority;

(8) The military is generally volunteer; occasional conscription is employed, but in no case are people dragooned into service;

(9) The Emperor is in general support of a basic foundation of civil rights for all citizens;

(10) The Emperor must have approval of taxation rates by a majority vote of the Imperial Council and the Board of Governors;

(11) Evil religions are ferociously persecuted throughout the provinces of the Vallorean Empire;

(12) Marriage is a sanctified and honoured institution that recieves taxation benefits from the Imperial Treasury;

(13) The individual rights of the populace to govern and teach their children is not infringed;

(14) Citizens of the Vallorean Empire have the freedom of travel; they can also change occupations and such as desired;

(15) The empire supports a restrained freedom of the press; the press, such as it is, has broad grounds for investigation and commentary;

(16) Freedom of Learning: throughout the empire, scholars and professors, as well as students, are permitted to explore and study a vast range of subjects, with only occasional or specific instruction required by the Imperial Authority;

(17) In foreign policy, the Vallorean Empire seeks to gain friends where there is common cause; the empire seeks to peacefully live with its neighbors, under the provisions that they are not demonstrably evil and wicked, despite the fact that they may adhere to cultural or religious customs that the empire deems strange, harsh, or unfortunate;

(18) The empire embraces a thorough punishment for criminals; Criminals are sure to be punished severely, with victims being compensated by a zealous prosection that pursues justice;

(19) The empire discourages rebellion in all forms, instead encouraging order, law, and responsible conduct, with dignity and honour;

(20) The empire has instituted a range of social programs in cooperation with the Vallorean Churches, designed to help the impoverished masses on occasion with food, vegetables, clothing, as well as medical care, spiritual counseling and job opportunities. Poor people can often volunteer to work for good wages in the iron mines, at 12 hours a day, for example; Others, like women, can work in vast textile factories and laundry centers, helping to provide needed services to the community; The empire embraces a strong work ethic--lazy people are scorned. Industry and hard work, is dignifying and honourable in everyone's eyes.

So, there is but a sampling of some of the virtues that distinguish the Vallorean Empire. Many of the empire's neighbors are not nearly so conscientious, and in fact can be severe and draconian in all things, often embracing various forms of racism and institutionalized slavery as well. These are often Nuetral or Good kingdoms, as opposed to nations that are out and out Evil, which are these things and more.

Thus, overall, many in the Vallorean Empire are, by the narrow definitions of D&D alignment, Lawful Good, with many being Lawful Nuetral. Some, of course, probably do get by with Lawful Evil alignments. The Vallorean Pantheon, though, is made up deities that are in the majority, Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, and Neutral Good. There are a few Neutral, Chaotic Good, and even Chaotic Neutral deities as well, but there are no evil deities of any kind.

I thought these comments would be interesting!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Volaran]

Greetings!

LOL!!! Well, indeed, does the Vallorean Empire appear to be Lawful Evil to many of you? Or Lawful Nuetral?

SHARK

I would say Lawful Neutral in my view but, with no offense intended, having read many of your posts, I can see how it would fit your view of Lawful Good. DM defines, no?

(1) They zealously wage war against all evil kingdoms that they are in contact with, or have reasonable geographical access and ability to wage war against;

(2) The support the Rule of Law;

(17) In foreign policy, the Vallorean Empire seeks to gain friends where there is common cause; the empire seeks to peacefully live with its neighbors, under the provisions that they are not demonstrably evil and wicked, despite the fact that they may adhere to cultural or religious customs that the empire deems strange, harsh, or unfortunate;
SHARK

This is the main point of contention to me. The Valloreans desire peace, unless their is the slightest sign of evil in a neighbor, in which case there would be brutal and unceasing slaughter until the evil was gone? It seems that their respect of the rule of law only extends to Vallorean law. Now, from their perspective, I can see that be reasonable to a Vallorean citizen, but I'd be damned nervous living next to them.

(11) Evil religions are ferociously persecuted throughout the provinces of the Vallorean Empire;

(19) The empire discourages rebellion in all forms, instead encouraging order, law, and responsible conduct, with dignity and honour;

(16) Freedom of Learning: throughout the empire, scholars and professors, as well as students, are permitted to explore and study a vast range of subjects, with only occasional or specific instruction required by the Imperial Authority;

(13) The individual rights of the populace to govern and teach their children is not infringed;
SHARK

These also seem to contradict a bit, but in a reasonable way. Obviously, the empire would infringe enough to see that children would be taught proper Vallorean things, as opposed to the the religious practices of Chaotic Evil gods for example. Again, I would assume that the study of such evil things by sages would be limited to countermeasures and theory rather than practical application. ^_- Balor summoning for the greater good discouraged and whatnot.

 

[Zenon]

Ok, here's another thought (pardon me if I ramble a bit):

What if we cave in? Offer to parlay? Peace with the mighty Valloreans, etc, etc.

After all, we are Chaotic Evil. The Vampire Lord's shoes might be looking pretty good to fill, but if we don't have the power why not get these pesky do-gooders to batter their heads against our Lords defenses while we bide our time.

Will our evil gods mind? Heck no, they like the strongest to serve them. Lets prove we're not only strong, but smart! Its already been pointed out that matching our force against the Vallorean Legions bearing down on us will get us wiped out.

So lets use this to our advantage. Remember, we consider our troops as "throw away". We need to expend enough of our troopies to put up a good fight (which we may do with some of the ideas floating around these threads) and the Valloreans will expect us not to give up easily.

However, when the Valloreans start seriously hammering us, let us have a change of heart. Offer surrender, tell them we've seen the error of our ways, tell them we've see that we were wrong, lay out the sob story how we're just tortured souls doing the bidding of our evil masters and we repent.

Send envoys to them who truly believe this. Zone of Truth? Doesn't work when the person speaking the words believes them. Auguries? Too short term to see effect in the future past an hour or so. Commune? Our dark gods can contribute to block answers by the good gods, this should haze this up.

In short, play it up to the Vallorean ego and their pride. Make them believe it. Offer them passage, give over the fortress, plead with them to spare the lives of our humble (worthless peasant) people.

Make them have to garrison us. Make them have to spread out to watch us and educate us, slow their advance to a crawl.

Oh and make some good faith terms for this. No wholesale slaughter of our people. After all, we're just a poor people trying to change our evil ways after being shown the righteous path by the Valloreans.

Get the promises from the Valloreans on paper. Signed treaties, etc.

But let's not expose all our strength. Do they have an accurate count of us? Know who our actual leaders are? If not hide some of them. Bury some undead in the countryside.

Let them come among us. Study their ways, their methods, their command structure. Study their gear. Learn about our foe.

If they sign the treaties, great. If they go back on them and start up the slaughter machine, send envoys to their allies. Beg and plead and give them the same sobs story, but now we have proof. "Look at how the Vallorean empire treats those who they sign treaties with," we'll cry, "Look how well they keep their word! Look at them killing our helpless peasants after we surrendered!"

If they don't sign, that's great too. We can still send the envoys to their allies. "Look at the warmongers," we'll say, "We offered a treaty for peace, we offered to stop this senseless fighting. We wanted to have them come amongst us and teach us the error of our ways. But no! They are filled with hatred and violence towards anything or anyone different. Beware that they don't find you "different" after they've bled off your land to feed the casualties of the war they're perpetuating! Are not their ambassadors amongst your people even now, preaching the goodness of their empire? What will you do when your people turn against you, letting your nation be absorbed into their never-ending war? How long until they bleed your nation dry of resource and people to feed their lust for violence done to others?"

Good stuff, either way. Lots of propaganda value for our Dark Lord.

If it slows their armies, that's even better. It gives our boss, the Vampire Lord, time to prepare. If it doesn't slow them, that's ok, that means our boss is that much less prepared when they hit. Maybe they'll take him out so we can step in.

If our boss comes down on us, we can show him we have a valid plan. We are trying to infiltrate them to corrupt them, or give us ammunition to weaken the support of their allies. It is a far reaching and ambitious plan. Rather than smash the army before us, can we hack away at the roots? If we can break up the Vallorean alliance, it can weaken them overall. Possibly even enough to turn the tide in the course of the war.

If he thinks we're too ambitious, then we can step aside and let the Valloreans at him.

The above has some merit, and tries to use the Vallorean weaknesses against themselves (pride and zealousness):

1) They've never lost a war - let's give them what they expect. Any casualties from the attempt will most likely be less that trying to engage them on the field, and we're never exposing our most experienced (and thus hardest to replace) troops.

2) If they kill us out of zealousness, we can manipulate this into a weapon which can harm their alliances with other nations. A whispered word in an advisors ear in some allied country, that travels to the kings ear. Not all of their allies can be as magically protected and vigilant as the Valloreans. We have to whittle away at them, cut the flow of manpower from these other nations into theirs. Once we can stem the incoming tide of manpower, then their bull-headed, damn-the-torpedoes way of fighting, accepting any loss to get us, will really begin to take it's toll on their armies in the field, or those guarding their homeland. Give us some cracks somewhere and we can get a toehold, perhaps enough stick a wedge in.

Comments? What do we think?