How would you defend your subterranean kingdom?

[jgbrowning]

Re: Re: new one

And how do we Goblins get in and out of our own home? And how do our wolfriders get in and out?

we climb the shaft, there would be rungs recessed in the wall.

we pully the wolves up whenver they want to come it. most of the time they'd be outside though

 

[Nail]

Re: Re: new one

quote:
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have a long entrance tunnel with all the nasties others have mentioned. at the end is a very tall shaft 5x5. at least 200 ft tall.

And how do we Goblins get in and out of our own home? And how do our wolfriders get in and out?

Bang on th' head, mmadsen, as usual.

Not to pick (too much) on the previous poster, but this is 'xactly what I'm talkin' about. It's all well an' good to make the perfect trap -- and as a DM it's pretty easy t' do -- but 9 times outta 10 the trap doesn't make sense in the larger context.

• How do the natives get around it to scout, look for food, etc.
• How was it built? Do the natives really have that kind of expertise and/or drive?
• How is it maintained? (Or was it jus' built last week, since that's when th' PCs adventure started......"Well, Wilbur, we'd better get that trap runnin' again...those adventurers will be thru her 'fore long....")

Still, having a rock or rock slide in an appropriate place is another Good Idea(tm). Add it to th' list.

...An' I guess slave labor's fine as well fer constructing goblin traps. The results would be crude, tho'. (Human kids, mmadsen? Yer a sick bastard. .......I'd use elvish or gnomish, m'self. :^> )

Re: Wood survival underground.
I disaggree with some of CRG's assessment.

It really depends on the local water table and regional precipitation. The reason so many old mines out West (USA) still have their timbers intact is because they are relatively dry. In contrast, mines in Wisconsin, Kentucky, or West Virginia have to have their timbers (or other supports) maintained every 7 to 10 years, or they become mucho unsafe and unstable.

Of course, wood type and preservation methods also play a role. In a oxygen-free environment, wood can last 1000's of years. But barring that sort of perfection, th' easiest preservative is tar, of course. Oil is also an excellent wood preservative. Anyone see any problems with these preservatives and typical adventurer practices?

Finally, some types of rock do not require support timbers. Those types (like granite, gneiss, limestone, or even salt) just require careful mining techniques to prevent blow-outs or collapse.

FWIW.

 

[mmadsen]

Re: Re: Re: new one

It's all well an' good to make the perfect trap -- and as a DM it's pretty easy t' do -- but 9 times outta 10 the trap doesn't make sense in the larger context.

• How do the natives get around it to scout, look for food, etc.
• How was it built? Do the natives really have that kind of expertise and/or drive?
• How is it maintained? (Or was it jus' built last week, since that's when th' PCs adventure started......"Well, Wilbur, we'd better get that trap runnin' again...those adventurers will be thru her 'fore long....")

That's what makes this challenge interesting -- that and the fact that we're taking the Goblin King's perspective. We're not just coming up with neat traps for the PCs. How do you defend your subterranean kingdom with minimal resources (lazy workers), while keeping it usable (for your lazy subjects) who need to raid nearby human lands, etc.?

Still, having a rock or rock slide in an appropriate place is another Good Idea(tm). Add it to th' list.

Definitely.

Human kids, mmadsen? Yer a sick bastard.

I try, Nail. I try.

 

[jgbrowning]

Re: Re: Re: new one

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
have a long entrance tunnel with all the nasties others have mentioned. at the end is a very tall shaft 5x5. at least 200 ft tall.



Bang on th' head, mmadsen, as usual.

Not to pick (too much) on the previous poster, but this is 'xactly what I'm talkin' about. It's all well an' good to make the perfect trap -- and as a DM it's pretty easy t' do -- but 9 times outta 10 the trap doesn't make sense in the larger context.

• How do the natives get around it to scout, look for food, etc.
• How was it built? Do the natives really have that kind of expertise and/or drive?
• How is it maintained? (Or was it jus' built last week, since that's when th' PCs adventure started......"Well, Wilbur, we'd better get that trap runnin' again...those adventurers will be thru her 'fore long....")

FWIW.

Its actually not a trap. up top you have goblins guards who phyically drop the stone on the pc's heads.

its about as simple as simple can be. i just should have taken more time to explain. next time ill do so.

joe b.

 

[Nail]

Re: Re: Re: Re: new one

Its actually not a trap. up top you have goblins guards who phyically drop the stone on the pc's heads.

Sure. The idea's simple enough.

We're talkin' about how the goblins would use the "pit entrance" fer daily life. Yer idea is fine.....'cept it's got this problem of being very inconvenient fer the Worg-riders. Or other size-Large or zero climb skill allies. How do they get in 'n out thru such an entrance? Cranes and winches? A bucket on a long rope? Another larger entrance (which must also be guarded)? Think it thru......

 

[mmadsen]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: new one

We're talkin' about how the goblins would use the "pit entrance" fer daily life. Yer idea is fine.....'cept it's got this problem of being very inconvenient fer the Worg-riders. Or other size-Large or zero climb skill allies. How do they get in 'n out thru such an entrance? Cranes and winches? A bucket on a long rope? Another larger entrance (which must also be guarded)? Think it thru...

Nail hits the, er, nail on the head. Dropping rocks on invaders at the bottom of a steep wall works just fine, but how do you fit that into a practical subterranean kingdom?

 

[jgbrowning]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: new one

Sure. The idea's simple enough.

We're talkin' about how the goblins would use the "pit entrance" fer daily life. Yer idea is fine.....'cept it's got this problem of being very inconvenient fer the Worg-riders. Or other size-Large or zero climb skill allies. How do they get in 'n out thru such an entrance? Cranes and winches? A bucket on a long rope? Another larger entrance (which must also be guarded)? Think it thru......

ok one more time.

long corridor with nasty traps ending in a tall shaft. shaft has recessed rungs for climbing. at top of shaft is 4 guards who, when they see a non-friendly drop a big stone slab down the pit. once everythings dead, if not they drop again, they pick up the pieces and throw it outside the lair.

to address particular reasons why my idea is not well thought through.

1. warg riders will get the frick off their wolf and climb like everyone else.

2. the only large baddies are the dire's and they'll squish down to 5x5 (remember 5x10 is only required for combat, two similarly sized creatures can share the same space if they are not fighting) so they dont even have to squish that much. just curl up and relax.

3. i already said there was a pully for lifting. does it matter if its a bucket or a platform or if they tie ropes to the creatures to be lifted. please use your judgement and pick whats best for you.

4. as to how it fits into a practical subbeterranean kingdom. it's a most efficient, cost effective, secure method of preventing invasion if the enemy cannot fly, etherial, teleport or move through solid stone.

5. you can have security or ease of access, not both.

joe b.

 

[Draco Argentum]

Two words WAR EGGS

While your raiders a stealing stuff get them to collect a bunch of eggs. Allow them to ripen for several months. Throw them at intruders. They are now nauseated so pelt them with arrows.

 

[mmadsen]

Re: new one

i already said there was a pully for lifting. does it matter if its a bucket or a platform or if they tie ropes to the creatures to be lifted.

The only way in is via hand-pulley dumbwaiter?

you can have security or ease of access, not both.

There are certainly trade-offs there, but a medieval castle's drawbridge over a moat, for instance, grants plenty of security with almost no loss of ease of access during day-to-day living.

 

[Nifft]

Timeline for a New Goblin Lair

Hi all!

How about this timeline for the scenario... (I've got the town and "lair" plotted out, too, but suspect they won't all fit in one post.)

t-200 years: Dwarven engineers set up a simple silver mine in the hills near the human & halfling farming thorp of Yakford.

t-195 years: Caravans occasionally make the detour to the thorp of Yakford to exchange mining supplies for silver.

t-125 years: Dwarven efficency has plumbed the depths of the Yakford hills. The hamlet of Yakford, its revenue and population swolen from the silver trade, is sad to see their short and economically valuable friends leave.

t-100 years: The hamlet of Yakford has changed its role, now fully catering to the caravans which diverted their routes here to pick up silver and discharge mining supplies, and boasts a brewery which supplies a surprisingly decent Dwarven Ale.

t-63 years: The village of Yakford is a regular stop along several caravan routes due to its renowned breweries. Local Rangers are sent to investigate reports of caravan attacks in the hills at night. A reward is offered and adventurers answer its call.

t-62 years: The attacks turn out to have been from a band of Kobolds based in the abandoned mine. They were led by an evil human Conjurer (level 11) and his two kobald disciples (Sorcerers level 7 & 5) whose removal was difficult. The final magical battle caused a cave-in, burying the mage and destroying part of the mines, which had been weakened by a year's worth of the kobold's careless digging.

t-4 months: An old farmer and his two grandchildren are found dead. Both of his cows are found partially eaten by beasts. His chickens and other food stores are missing. His farm is one of those more distant from the village -- raiders or wild beasts are suspected.

t-3 months: Wolves are heard in the hills. Yakford farmers report missing chickens and pigs; three more cows are found mostly devoured. Village Rangers suspect wild wolves.

t-2 months: A caravan reports having driven off a small group of "short grey-green bastards" around dusk. The "bastards" had been attempting to ambush the caravan in a dip in the South Road, but a sharp-eyed guard spotted them. The next night a small group of travelers is killed on the South Road. They are found the next day: belongings looted, bodies mostly eaten. Village Rangers now suspect goblin raiders.

t-1 month: Three caravans have been attacked on the South Road, the most recent one in broad daylight. Two attacks, including the most recent, were successful: the raiders made off with several caravan horses, loaded with goods from the caravans. The rest of the caravan goods were put to the torch. Survivors reported wolves and more goblinoid creatures. A farmer from the north-east reports that three of his cows were slaughtered and eaten, the attacker having broken into his barn overnight.

Now: Village Rangers are patroling nightly from the northern fields to South Road. The raiders are thought to be in the hills to the east, probably near the old mine. The morning that the adventurers arrive, one of the junior Ranger patrols does not return.

(More to follow...)

-- Nifft