How would you defend your subterranean kingdom?

[Nail]

suggestion here:

The goblins live in and underground right? Worgs are USELESS for underground mobility. Sure they make great scouts and such out and about but think about what lives in and around the underearth: Insects.

Sure.

But, I was sorta talkin' about goblins using their strengths, from the MM. Says their favored class is rogues, an' they ride Worgs. "Okay, how to make that work?"

They could have other stuff, like th' centipedes or bats. But those vermin or animals would require "handle animal" skill (with some wicked skill DCs for the vermin), something they have no racial or favored class bonus in.

Not to stick too close to th' books....'cause that might be boring. But seein' what you can do with the core material.....

Like I said a while back in this thread: Hey, yer the DM. You could make goblins into freakin' bronzed gods............if ya wanted too.

 

[mmadsen]

They're pround hunters and skirmishers who've left thier big tribe (and are trying to found a new, stronger tribe) becuase they weren't getting the respect they thought they deserved. Thier tactics are cowardly -- they will not engage in combat unless they have better arms and numbers -- but their style is that of a hunter. Uffalg took with him those who were sympathetic to his cause ("more respect for hunters") and that's probably disproportionately rangers.

The Ranger class might fit if the D&D Ranger represented a hunter. Granted, it's the only class with Track and Wilderness Lore, but it's far from a Hunter class, what with it's quirky two-weapon fighting, favorite enemies, and spells. Rogues with Tracking (or Alertness) as their Feat and Wilderness Lore as a Cross-Class Skill fit the hunter archetype well too, and they can actually set up a nice ambush.

The chief & his brother are power hungry. They go about getting it by different means -- Ukrat through discipline and study, Uffalg via strength and bullying.

Discipline? Strength?

These are the goblins who survived a moderately long trek through somewhat hostile mountains, hills & woodlands.

So they have a few ranks in Wilderness Lore -- and maybe they're 2nd or 3rd level.

How exactly do non-ranger, non-druid goblins go about getting a bunch of worgs & dire wolves to let the goblins ride them?

How do non-ranger, non-druid humans go about getting a bunch of horses to let the humans ride them?

The tribe is on its way to becoming even less typical...

I hope I'm not giving you too much grief here. I'd just like to see how much we can do with the standard Goblin tribe. It looks like we can do a lot, all without straying from "standard".

 

[Nifft]

The Ranger class might fit if the D&D Ranger represented a hunter. Granted, it's the only class with Track and Wilderness Lore, but it's far from a Hunter class, what with it's quirky two-weapon fighting, favorite enemies, and spells.

IMHO the idea of "favorite enemies" fits a hunter very well. The idea that you know some prey particularly well isn't absurd.

It seems like this is precisely the role that evil rangers are intended to fill: raiders. For a leader who dominates through fear & bullying, taking his own race as a racial enemy also makes sense.

With respect to two-weapon quirkyness, I'm seriously considering making all rangers be Monte Cook's version.

Discipline? Strength?

Yep, different approaches. The current leader is able to command a large number of goblins, since they're more swayed by bullying than reason. However, they're only coordinated for short periods, when they have a clear goal OR when they're directly supervised by a feared overseer.

The chief's brother has a much smaller following, but he's able to coordinate them much more effectively. His followers all have an Int of 12 or above.

The former is Chaotic Evil, the latter is Lawful Evil.

So they have a few ranks in Wilderness Lore -- and maybe they're 2nd or 3rd level.

I'm somewhat swayed. I'm now considering making 1/3 of the goblin levels rogue (now it's about 1/3 ranger and 2/3 warrior, with a few fighters). They would be effective in ambushes (and that's what sways me).

How about some level 2 rogue/rangers?

The majority of the goblins are going to need to stay level 1 -- I'm not throwing four level 4-5 characters into a nest of 75 level 2 goblins (plus higher level leaders).

How do non-ranger, non-druid humans go about getting a bunch of horses to let the humans ride them?

Since worgs are intelligent magical beasts, it's a very moot point. Silly of me to not have checked.

I hope I'm not giving you too much grief here.

He who posts an idea is asking for grief (whether he knows it or not).

-- Nifft

 

[Nifft]

The goblins live in and underground right? Worgs are USELESS for underground mobility. Sure they make great scouts and such out and about but think about what lives in and around the underearth: Insects.

Insects aren't really amenable to Ranger skills.

Worgs are useful for scouting, outside guard duty (sniffing out invisible rogues), and for raids. They don't go in the mines -- not far, any way.

Bats? What about them? Flying mounts that can be used and trained easily. They make great night time flyers and raiders and can be used in a pinch to make swooping attacks on the enemy while the goblins throw spears at the party from above.

Now this has potential. Not even dire bats are big enough to be ridden, but they'll make fine extra attackers in the big caved-in part of the mine (where the shaft out is high enough for them to fly outside at night).

A few dire rats will make a nice addition to the goblin defense, too.

-- Nifft

 

[mmadsen]

Not even dire bats are big enough to be ridden...

A Dire Bat is Large, just like a normal Horse. This naturally leads to the question of where to we put them, since they have a wingspan of 8 to 9 feet.

 

[mmadsen]

IMHO the idea of "favorite enemies" fits a hunter very well.

Yes, Favorite Enemy: Deer makes good sense for a hunter.

I'm now considering making 1/3 of the goblin levels rogue (now it's about 1/3 ranger and 2/3 warrior, with a few fighters). They would be effective in ambushes (and that's what sways me).

My personal taste leans toward Rogues with a few Fighters for the Wolfriders. I think we can agree that Goblins should be effective in ambushes (and not much else), and Rogues are the class for that -- and they're the Goblins' favored class.

 

[mmadsen]

Worgs are useful for scouting, outside guard duty (sniffing out invisible rogues), and for raids. They don't go in the mines -- not far, any way.

This makes for another interesting design constraint for our subterranean kingdom.

 

[mmadsen]

Fungus: Violet Shriekers (as stated above), molds, slimes, oozes, etc. make the pits and traps so that those that don't know they are there fall down in them. Make a pit trap housing nothing but gelatinous cubes and watch the PC's die when they start getting disolved.

Incidentally, how do you make a pit trap full of gelatinous cubes?

 

[hong]

Incidentally, how do you make a pit trap full of gelatinous cubes?

Pick one of the following punchlines:

- Two in the front, and two in the back.

- Kick the black pudding out.

- With a blender.


Hong "'to get to the other side' just doesn't cut it" Ooi

 

[mmadsen]

Issue 18 of Dungeon is one of the best. It has several very imaginative adventures as good or better than most commerically packaged stuff being produced now.

Can anyone share some of the Goblin traps (and other stronghold ideas) from Dungeon 18?