How would you defend your subterranean kingdom?

[mmadsen]

Ahh -- got it. So the gobbies will just have to do 5' to 10' of swimming, then, right? A small cost to pay to protect the main area -- but it won't protect the goblins behind the murder-holes.

They may not have to really swim at all; the U-passage could be a few feet deep. Interesting, it wouldn't be obvious to any pursuers that it was a U-shaped tunnel a few feet deep and a few feet long.

Also, you can have "gate houses" on either side of the U-passage, and those could have their own U-passages between them.

 

[Alcamtar]

Double Pit Gate

Invaders come to a closed portcullis, with a large hole in the ceiling just before it. There is a room above with archers who will shoot anyone attempting to open the portcullis. A low wall around the opening provides some cover from spells. Directly below the opening is a covered pit, opening into a similar room down below; directly below THAT is a 20 ft spike filled pit. The room below has goblins with bows and spears. Escape tunnels from these two rooms are optional.

Invaders preoccupied looking upwards will likely fall into the pit below; anyone attempting to climb up who is knocked down will also fall in. Those who fall into will fall all the way to the bottom, and cannot be easily rescued because of the goblins below. (If not rescued, the goblins below will attempt to kill trapped individuals with spears.) Anyone entering either room successfully will be grappled or attacked with spears.

DIAGRAM:

   +--------+
   |        |
------+  +-------
         [
------+==+-------
   |        |
   +--+  +--+
      |  |
      |  |
      |^^|

A variation on the "twisty passages" idea:

Mine out an area with a gridwork of twisting tunnels separated by wide colums. The map would look sort of like hex paper, except the "lines" on the hex paper are tunnels. Make each tunnel short, perhaps ten feet long. Make all the ceilings about 4.5 feet high. Since the tunnels twist and turn, there are no "straight shots" where they can support each other with missile fire, and have to navigate the area single file, moving slowly in a crouching position. The goblins can stage hit-and-run attacks, from the shadows, coming from all sides, but can only be counter-attacked by one invader at a time.

DIAGRAM:

   g
 gg
  \ \_ g
   )x_g
g_/x/  g
g x(
g \x\_ g
   )x_g
 _/ /  g
 gg(
   g

(x) invader
(g) goblin

The goblins attack with ranged weapons from at least 10 feet away, then flee into the shadows. If the invaders spread out, the goblins can gang up on each one from three sides, or flank them from two sides. If they stay bunched up they cannot engage the goblins in melee, and their tactics and movement are hampered. This could be particularly effective if the goblins have a vicious ally -- a large dire wolf something -- which can take on the invaders one at a time.

Using Vertical Architecture

1. A spiral stair that descends around a stalactite column into the center of a room. As invaders descend, they are vulnerable to unseed goblin archers 40 ft away in the darkness.

2. A deep chasm, with a khazad-dum style bridge, so they have to go single file. On the other side is a doorway protected by a portcullis. The lone fighter out front will have fun trying to break through this will being peppered by arrows and spears. Put some green slime or spikes at the bottom for added fun; if you have time, grease the bridge before the invaders get to it.

3. Drop a barrelful of caltrops from a murder hole into a tiny passage, so they completely cover the floor and prevent movement. Then follow up with oil, and finally green slime.

4. Large high room, with ledges 30' up on the walls. Archers hidden in the darkness on these ledges fire at invaders. The ledges prevent closing for melee. If anyone gets close enough with a torch to see the archers, they escape into a small tunnel, emerging again once the light is gone. Before the invaders realize there are ledges here, they might shoot a fireball blindly into the darkness, aiming at eye level, harmlessly striking a wall.

5. If any underground seepage is present (and it usually is) and a natural chimney/sinkhole is available, it can be used as an obstacle. Wet flowstone can be VERY slippery as any spelunker can tell you. You have to go up a narrow wet slippery hole; normally goblins above help those below, perhaps with a rope, but adventurers will have to go it alone. A goblin archer hidden in the darkness at point "x" can make life difficult for the first guy up. A bottomless sinkhole is best, but if not, cultivate some giant crayfish in the pool at the bottom. BTW this is a great location to leave a torch burning continuously, as green scum will form in the presence of light (this is a problem in real caves too); invaders will think it's green slime and waste an enormous amount of effort trying to avoid or kill it. A fireball will dry the area for one round and get rid of slime, but flowing water will immediately wet it again.

Of course, once the party is split, attack!

DIAGRAM:

          |  |
          |  +----------
          |           x
          |  +----------
----------+  |
             |
----------+  |
          |  |

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

My friend mmadsen wrote:
____________________________________________________
Quote:

"According to the Monster Manual, a Goblin Tribe comprises:



40-400 1st-level Warriors

One 3rd-level Sergeant per 20 adults

One or two Lieutenants of 4th or 5th level

One Leader of 6th to 8th level

10-24 Worgs

2-4 Dire Wolves"
____________________________________________________
End Quote.

Now, in looking over the above force, assuming 260 1st level Warriors, (slightly more than average)--that would provide additional forces, as follows:

Base-line: 260 1st level Warriors

(1) 13 3rd level Sergeants (3rd level Fighters)

(2) 2 5th level Lieutenants (2nd level Ranger/3rd level Rogue)

(3) 1 8th level lord. (4th level Ranger/4th level Rogue)

(4) 4 Dire Wolves

Assuming, as per the thread, that these Goblins live underground, it seems to me logical that they would put efforts into mining operations where appropriate. This of course, could at least provide the Goblin tribe with if not considerable wealth, at the least supply their own needs in metallurgy and in manufacturing. This then allows for the following strategies:

There should be a series of Goblin-sized passages throughout, to minimize the accessability for larger invaders. Entrances are then deployed with steel gates, backed up by a series of defense-points from above the passages. There would be three portcullises, each about thirty feet apart. Each portcullis would be backed up by a pair of steel doors, creating a three-part sealed entrance chamber. The ceilings above would contain interlocked passages, and iron-grate flooring, allowing the dumping of boiling oil on all invaders below, in addition to missile fire. At each section, there would be a locking door connecting with the next ceiling chamber, thus, having three interlocked and secure ceiling chambers above each of the enclosed gated sections of entrance hall below them.

In addition to this, there can be a double-steel door at the third section, thus creating a total seal. At the four corners, both at the bottom, and the ceilings, there can be small valved pipes that can quickly flood one, two, or all three chambers with burning oil. The chamber beyond the three-part entrance hall has an upper gallery, with stairways designed with the curving wall on the right, thus inhibiting attackers attempting to gain the top of the gallery. However, from above, the defenders have no such hindrance. From these stairways, there can be Goblins armed with halberds, while Goblins from the galleries above rake the attackers with archer-fire. In addition, from these main fighting positions, which can be a larger rectangular meeting hall to allow ease in assembling the troops, this is also where dug-in kennels can be found, which allow the Dire wolves to sweep in to attack invaders, and retreat back into their smaller-holed kennels to be healed by a Goblin Shaman, before returning to the fray. In addition, the doors (four of them) leading from the great hall can all be of steel, and barred. Each can lead into another small chamber, roofed with murder holes, portcullised, and gated at the other end as well. The walls can be covered from floor to ceiling with great 3' long steel spikes. The lowest spike is set at precisely 4' high. Thus, the Goblin defenders fighting the invaders with halberds and such can fight unhindered, while the invaders must fight while having sharp steel spikes, potentially poisoned, everywhere at their backs in these dangerous death-chambers. The chambers beyond these access secondary entrance points, would each have small access-hallways that lead from them, on down small corridors, to each subsequant chamber.

From this set-up, the Goblins can stock bundles of poisons, slimes, bundles of poisonous molds, hay, and oil, to smoke, burn, irritate, and poison invaders at every step of the way. In addition, the tunnels are so designed that the Goblins can fire several volleys from cover and concealment, then withdraw, while a few assault squads of Goblins with swords, burning flasks, and halberds, keep the invaders busy. The archers then withdraw to the next section, where the assault forces can now withdraw under heavy and deadly support fire. Special poison-gas hallways, as well as barbecue hallways can be made, where the floor is iron-grating, under which burn beds of sizzling coals. The iron will be red hot, and narrow walkways can be made on the sides, with a suitable imposing stone arched-railing preventing someone taller from walking on them. As taller invaders seek to *crawl* along these narrow access-ledges, requiring all four limbs to negotiate successfully, the sides of the hallway can be deployed with horizontal murder-holes to allow for the Goblins to unleash a torrent of archer fire on the helpless invaders! If the invaders fall off, or let go, they can be grilled to death on the sizzling iron grill, as they are shot at from a dozen archers.

The Goblins can keep this up, fire, ambush, retreat, continuously, night and day. The Goblins, having superior numbers, can set up shifts where the Goblins can assault invading parties every hour, on the hour, night and day. The invading party should be pretty worked over in a short time. They should be retreating soon from such an onslaught, and the Goblins can live free!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Psychotic Jim]

I second the notion of using other denizens of the Underdark. An often-used tacttic is to use the Shrieker fungus for alarm systems. Building false tunnels that lead to the domains of more dangerous underground inhabitants might work too.

 

[mmadsen]

Now, in looking over the above force, assuming 260 1st level Warriors, (slightly more than average)--that would provide additional forces, as follows:

Base-line: 260 1st level Warriors
(1) 13 3rd level Sergeants (3rd level Fighters)
(2) 2 5th level Lieutenants (2nd level Ranger/3rd level Rogue)
(3) 1 8th level lord. (4th level Ranger/4th level Rogue)
(4) 4 Dire Wolves

This force breakdown reminds me of something. Why, if Goblins are sneaky cowards -- with Rogue as their preferred class no less -- is a typical Goblin a Warrior? To maintain backwards compatability, I'm sure -- heck, that's why the wimpy Warrior class exists at all -- but shouldn't a typical Goblin be a Rogue? Or maybe a Ranger? And shouldn't a Wolfrider be a full-fledged Fighter?

Now, if we replace all those 1st-level Warriors with a mix of 1st-level Rogues and Fighters, imagine what a Goblin ambush might feel like -- a couple dozen shortbow Sneak Attacks, each with +1d6 damage!

 

[Corinth]

Because the PC classes are for characters of heroic stature, for good or ill, and not J. Random Spootwheat. That's why most NPC combatants are Warriors while their leaders are something else.

 

[Forrester]

Because the PC classes are for characters of heroic stature, for good or ill, and not J. Random Spootwheat. That's why most NPC combatants are Warriors while their leaders are something else.

This statement is a perfect representation of the anti-NPC bias that pervades 3E today.

Next thing you'll be telling us is that a party of NPCs should have far, far less equipment than a party of PCs of equivalent level, just because the DMG felt that it was necessary, to "balance" treasure and encounter levels when it comes to NPCs. Hmph.

In my campaign, I treat all my fictional characters equally, whether they're player-controlled or not, thank you very much!

 

[mmadsen]

If you like the idea of lesser NPC classes (e.g. Warrior vs. Fighter, rather than 1st-level Fighter vs. 2nd-level Fighter), this isn't the thread for me to change your mind, but I'd expect you to accept that a 1st-level Warrior isn't much of a sneaky coward -- he has no sneaky abilities -- and that the Goblin's preferred class is Rogue (not Fighter or Warrior), and he's supposed to be sneaky. If you think a 1st-level Rogue is too powerful, I guess you'd want another lesser NPC class for not-quite-Rogues.

Now, how would you defend your subterranean kingdom with a rag-tag band of Goblin bandits?

 

[mmadsen]

I didn't see anyone else mentioning this in my brief skim of the thread, but has anyone tried out Reverse Dungeon? It's one of the last 2e products that got put out I think, but it wouldn't be all that hard to convert I don't think. It always looked fun, but I was too lazy to run it...lol

I've been meaning to try out the Reverse Dungeon idea -- with or without the Reverse Dungeon product -- and I thought it would make for a great Adversarial Campaign (also discussed in Two parties at odds).

I was also thinking that it would make for a great variant Smackdown. Set a party of four Iconics with spear carriers against a Goblin Kingdom!

 

[trix]

...

As goblin king, i'd have a few scenarios to defend against:

1) Defend the tribe against those sneaky "heroes" seeking to plunder our plunder. (Small party, 6-8 humans)

2) Defend the tribe against other goblin tribes wanting to invade our goblin tunnles. (300-1000 goblins)

3) Evacuate the children when our cave complex is being invaded. Have situational awareness of any intrusion to know when to evacuate.

4) Fight to the death when we cannot evacuate.

---

We're looking at a goblin tribe of 50 to 800 members - assuming everyone who isnt a child, is a 1st level warrior (women included).

---

Lets assume a large goblen warren 800 members 400 1st level warriors, 100 assorted higher ranked warriors, 300 women and children.

---

We cant have the entire tribe entering and leaving through 2 exits. It would be too busy and its too easy to 'choke' the entrance and exits.

So you'd have 6 gateways with a 7th privilaged gateway.

Each entrance should have multiple collapsable points.

Within the cave complex, there should be two or three evacuation points. This should have a collapsable entrance, so, the entire tribe should be able to evacuate to this hall and stay for days. This hall has a previously collapsed exit, which needs to be dug to the surface. This provides the goblins with a good escape that is only revealed when 10-20 goblins start digging. In addition, from the outside, the exit could be anywhere... an invading goblin tribe couldnt even begin to guess where its gonna come out.

---

Now, there were some good ideas about the smoke/gass traps.
This is good... but maybe for secluded secret entrance/exits only.
Imagine 800 people moving through such a trap.

Someone is going to die.
Most of the water will stick to the clothing and furs, and will be emptied.

In addition, you're wetting the furs.
If this is winter, that'd be deadly.

But its a good idea as a secret entrance. (Guarded from the inside incase human heroes are knowledgable of goblin lore [clarvoyance?])

It would, at best, keep out the bears and other unintelligent animals.

---

Small tunnels are good for entrances, but bad for carrying large cargos plundered from the humans.

Are horses kept inside, or outside? There may always be the need.

So, many goblin entrances would be 3-4", but at least one would accomidate human sized cargo/horses/cattle/sheep/pigs/etc.

Each would have portcullii and murder holes, aswell as pits preceeding the porcullii.


Someone mentioned hex networks... great idea as a small set of interconnecting tunnels.

The complex would have to be split into two 3 sections.

1: 4" goblin tunnels.
2: 6" horse, cattle, wagon tunnels.
3: air venting structure.


1 is simple, lots of darkness, water traps (all goblins know to avoid certain paths).

2, more difficult to defend. The seperation between 1 and 2 should be possible by collapsable tunnels.

3, the most difficult to defend. A weakness of any mining complex is that it can be smoked and the occupants vented. A carefully planned venting complex would need to move enough air to keep the tribe healthy. At the same time, it shouldnt have many hot air vent exits that suck air into the caverns. There should be spare vents, and they should be concealed (regretably any smoke would show on the surface).

---

Portcullii should be used to secure sections and factions within the tribe. You dont want human heroes wondering into the armory/smithy section without triggering some alarm. They should at least have to smash through/get past a portcullis+gatehouse type structure.

---

Lastly, you cant have too many gatehouses. They need to be manned fulltime. The entire tribe's goal isnt to defend 100% of the time, so, 25% of the tribe should be able to defend against an invading tribe with a 4-1 kill ratio.

With the synchronized colapsing of tunnels and the cutting of sectional air vents, choke points at specific gatehouses, long tunnels, that should be possible. The other 75%, if they're at home, need to be able to exit to the surface quickly to harry and secure surface points (if important - eg: water source / bring in cattle / secure evacuation point).

---

There isnt much else I can think of.

All entrances to the tunnel should have a 'rising' passageway. When that is being stormed, hot oil should be poured. Worse case: the oil doesnt hit anyone but the pain of standing in boiling oil makes walking towards the murder holes w/Archers... difficult.

It should be possible to vent the insecure sections of your own caves with smoke, to prevent their use by invaders. Thus, where your cavern is difficult to defend, you flood it with smoke.

This might ensure that you're only fighting a war on one front with reasonable possibiltity to attack from the smoke if you've the spells to breath in smoke without trouble.

---

The easiest way to infiltrate the complex is to shapechange into a sheep and hope you dont get killed onsight. Instead, becoming one of the goblin herd.... if they do keep animals... which would be stupid not to since they do have to stockpile for winter (?).

---

-Tim