How would you defend your subterranean kingdom?

[CRG]

Originally posted by mmadsen

Does that intimidate the cowardly humans, or does it fill them with the resolve to hunt you down and exterminate you?

Ah.

Well. I haven't been as busy on this thread. However, the IDEA of making sure they are known to be ruthless and vicious is good, but I think mmadsen is right.

We may have skipped right over something though....kidnapping.

Don't be vicious and KILL their wives / daughtes / pets. Well, ok, kill the pets - I mean, a goblin has to eat, right?

But kidnap their loved-ones. That forces the incoming attack to use subterfuge and becomes a 'rescue' adventure instead of an assault. If an assault were to occur, bye-bye baby.

 

[mmadsen]

But kidnap their loved-ones.

As a lazy, cowardly Goblin, you of course kidnap and enslave their loved ones. Hostages that do the dishes! Or mend your socks. Or carve labyrinthine tunnels out of the rock for you.

 

[mmadsen]

Re: Goblins as Bronzed Gods?

Goblin traps are simple to build, cheap to make, and practically rotted thru, 'cause the lazy buggers haven't been maintaining them.

This sounds like a great device for DMs running a low-level adventure. The Goblin Kingdom should kill our heroes, looking at it on paper, but the traps don't quite work, the guards are gambling, etc.

 

[CRG]

Of course, no one has said the goblins escape tunnels or even main passages actually have to be convienient for large people to go through.

Heck, maybe they are SO lazy, even small-sized folks have to crawl.

Send in the gnomes and halflings, cause the humans will never make it in that far.

One or two large passages, defended. The rest are cramped and alternate sloping up and down, etc. and generally not fun for small folks and hell on medium-sized ones to crawl through. Escape artist checks just to make it through a tunnel? Suck. Escape artist checks just to make it through a tunnel where as soon as you start sloping uphill there's a goblin at the top shooting poisoned crossbow bolts at you? Priceless.

 

[CRG]

Incidentally....

Human crawling through a tight space basically can't use his or her dex bonus.

Goblins are natural rogues, although granted most are warriors.

However, human (or other creature) crawling through tunnel without dex is sneak-attack bait for the goblin rogue. That damage adds up...and it's extraordinary damage...only rogues and barbarians are going to avoid it.

Now, if the goblins start fighting folks that can teleport to them, it's time to pack up and join the anti-Vallorean army and see if they can get some fiendish-spider bodyguards.

 

[mmadsen]

I think someone should playtest just how brutal a few murder holes and arrow slits can be. They're certainly easy enough to implement, even for lazy Goblins.

 

[Voobaha]

Two words: Tallow's Deep!

An old module from Dungeon mag (#18). I just ran an updated version with PCs (5 & 6th level party), the body count was about average: 3 or 4 PCs in 3 sorties and they didn't get half way through.

"Dammit, they are only goblins. How tough can they be?"...



Stormdale

Three Words:
GET THIS ISSUE

Issue 18 of Dungeon is one of the best. It has several very imaginative adventures as good or better than most commerically packaged stuff being produced now.

Tallow's Deep is exactly the kind of adventure you're looking for. It was written by the guys who made the Paranoia RPG (one of whom, Bill Slaviseck, was part of the team who designed 3rd Edition D&D).

This has all the clever goblin tricks and traps you can think of. It especially plays on munchkinlike Players' overconfident hack n' slash attitudes towards Goblins, and gets gradually more tense & dramatic as the PCs infiltrate the lair. The Goblins even use psychological warfare techniques on the PCs. The place truly is a "Goblinized" Vietcong tunnel complex!

Voobaha

 

[Nail]

Hostages that do the dishes! Or mend your socks....

Excellent.

.....My only beef with this thread: Complicated = not gonna happen. It just ruins the "suspension of disbelief" fer me, and I've seen DMs do it.

Back On Topic: Why are goblins warriors? Shouldn't they all be rogues (or the "Thug" NPC class from Traps and Treachery; a good idea(tm) BTW). Rogue defenders in a narrow tunnel complex that denies med-sized defenders their dex bonus......ouch!

Also, if the MM says they are warriors, wouldn't they have more hp, better skills, and be tougher than the CR listed in the MM? Huh?

 

[mmadsen]

Complicated = not gonna happen. It just ruins the "suspension of disbelief" fer me, and I've seen DMs do it.

I agree, but often we see just the opposite, an undergound kingdom that can easily be taken one small room at a time, with no real sentries, no choke points, etc.

Back On Topic: Why are goblins warriors? Shouldn't they all be rogues (or the "Thug" NPC class from Traps and Treachery; a good idea(tm) BTW).

I made that point earlier. If they're supposed to be sneaky and cowardly, why aren't they Rogues?

Also, if the MM says they are warriors, wouldn't they have more hp, better skills, and be tougher than the CR listed in the MM?

They are 1st-level Warriors: 1d8 Hit Points, +1 BAB, 4x2 Skill Points, etc.

 

[mmadsen]

Three Words: GET THIS ISSUE.

If only it were that easy, Voobaha.

Issue 18 of Dungeon is one of the best. It has several very imaginative adventures as good or better than most commerically packaged stuff being produced now.

Now you're taunting us. Cruel. Very cruel.

Tallow's Deep is exactly the kind of adventure you're looking for....This has all the clever goblin tricks and traps you can think of. It especially plays on munchkinlike Players' overconfident hack n' slash attitudes towards Goblins, and gets gradually more tense & dramatic as the PCs infiltrate the lair. The Goblins even use psychological warfare techniques on the PCs. The place truly is a "Goblinized" Vietcong tunnel complex!

Do you want to pass along any ideas from the adventure?