How would you defend your subterranean kingdom?

[Nifft]

Yes, Favorite Enemy: Deer makes good sense for a hunter.

I'm actually already using this for a small tribe of savage gnolls -- they hunt wild dogs and deer. However, I'm going to allow the Favored Enemy bonuses for deer to apply equally to horses, which may give the party a longer trek out of the wilderness than they'd expected.

My personal taste leans toward Rogues with a few Fighters for the Wolfriders. I think we can agree that Goblins should be effective in ambushes (and not much else), and Rogues are the class for that -- and they're the Goblins' favored class.

Okay, how about this for tribal composition:

The Named Ones:

Leader: Uffalg (CE Ranger 6) - Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, PBShot, Mounted Archery

Luitenants:
- Fugrig (NE Ranger 4) - Mounted Combat, Point-Blank Shot, Mounted Archery
- Girut (LE Fighter 4) - Point Blank Shot, Dirty Fighting, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery

Magical Support:
- Ukrat (LE Illusionist 4) - Spell Focus: Illusion, Brew Potion
- Taggerst (LE Illusionist 1) - Discipline
- Olspart (LE Cleric 3) - Skill Focus: Alchemy, Brew Potion
- Fattun (LE Cleric 1) - Skill Focus: Herbalism
- Bragog (LE Cleric 1) - Discipline
(all clerics use the domains: Evil, Trickery)


The Nameless Hordes:

7x Sergent: Fighter 2 / Rogue 1 - CE - Mounted Combat, Point-Blank Shot, Mounted Archery, Dirty Fighting
22x Ranger 2 - NE - Mounted Combat, Point-Blank Shot
59x Rogue 2 - CE - Dirty Fighting


Oh my, look at all those targets with Evasion.

-- Nifft, feeling very evil about throwing four level 3 PCs against these goblins

 

[mmadsen]

I'm actually already using this for a small tribe of savage gnolls -- they hunt wild dogs and deer. However, I'm going to allow the Favored Enemy bonuses for deer to apply equally to horses, which may give the party a longer trek out of the wilderness than they'd expected.

Interesting historical tidbit: The Mexican natives, having never seen horses before, called Cortes's steeds "deer" (or something equivalent).

 

[Nail]

Oh my, look at all those targets with Evasion.

-- Nifft, feeling very evil about throwing four level 3 PCs against these goblins

...of course, you know yer PCs best but: against that, they're meat.

Th' PCs are either gonna have to be really smart and act cohesively and the goblins will have to be really stupid.....or, your intension as a DM is to have them not beat the goblins.

How are those encounters going to play out? You've got some potential EL 8+ encounters in there, easy.

 

[Nifft]

...of course, you know yer PCs best but: against that, they're meat.

They don't know what they're up against... but by the time they go in to "clean house", they'll be around 4th-5th level.

The first chapter of the adventure will have them defending a caravan or two. Some tough encounters, but with one or two high-level NPCs around to help out, and the goblins focused on robbery, not slaughter.

The second chapter will have the PCs scouting for the goblin's lair. There are many wilderness encounters for them, from friendly research gnomes trying to create dire beavers to a nearly-dead tribe of feral gnolls to small goblin scout patrols. Many deep forrest beasts have had their normal hunting grounds & prey usurped by the goblins & worgs -- and the beasts are hungry.

The third chapter will have the party rushing back to Yakford to warn them of an impending attack, and assisting in the defense. Again, there will be some higher-level NPCs around to save the PC's butts, but the PCs will still heroically turn the tide agains the raiders, and there will be much rejoicing.

Finally, the fourth chapter will find the PCs going to clean out the goblin's lair. When they see what's been going on in the lair, they may be pleasantly surprised (or very, very unpleasantly -- depends how tough they seem).

When they've killed (or driven off) the last of the goblins, they may find what the goblins had been seeking (in the fifth chapter).

And when they finally return to town, they will find at least one last surprise...

All in all, I expect the party (of 4) to be 5th-6th level when they are done. I also expect them to give goblins a little more respect in the future.

-- Nifft

PS: Even with all that said, I fully intend to have 15% of the encounters be "frighteningly likely to result in death" and 5% be "RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY". There's nothing wrong with an unwinnable fight, as long as it's not also an unavoidable fight.

 

[mmadsen]

...of course, you know yer PCs best but: against that, they're meat.

I'm sure Nifft's response already made this clear, but any adventure would look like instant death if you listed all the evil baddies in the entire dungeon the way Nifft listed his Goblin tribe.

 

[mmadsen]

The first chapter of the adventure will have them defending a caravan or two. The second chapter will have the PCs scouting for the goblin's lair. The third chapter will have the party rushing back to Yakford to warn them of an impending attack, and assisting in the defense. Finally, the fourth chapter will find the PCs going to clean out the goblin's lair. When they've killed (or driven off) the last of the goblins, they may find what the goblins had been seeking (in the fifth chapter).

Sounds good. I may have to steal that framework.

There's nothing wrong with an unwinnable fight, as long as it's not also an unavoidable fight.

Very true.

 

[Nail]

I'm sure Nifft's response already made this clear, but any adventure would look like instant death if you listed all the evil baddies in the entire dungeon the way Nifft listed his Goblin tribe.

Hmmmmm.........

I suppose so. I wonder what "HoNFS" would look like, given that format, i.e. "all at once".

But still, I'll hide behind the flimsy shield of "false advertising". Third level adventurers are not going up against th' tribe. They are "nibbling at th' edges", so to speak, until they're high enough level to deal with them.

And unwinnable fights can be good....occasionally.

So, Nifft, what are th' traps an' defenses of th' goblins gonna look like?

 

[Nifft]

So, Nifft, what are th' traps an' defenses of th' goblins gonna look like?

I'll cop to the false advertising charge ... but even if I hadn't explicitly planned to make them nibble before they learned how to bite, I'd never let them just charge in. It's all about the intel.

The wilderness encounters are going to be more important for the first three-and-a-half chapters, so I honestly haven't fully fleshed out the lair, but here's what I've got so far.

It's an abandoned Dwarven mine (starts out sturdy), worked on by kobolds (gets trapped, destablized), and finally damaged by magical battle and partially caved in.

The Dwarves discovered two connected veins of silver (really one vein pinched by a broken strata-layer-thingy) running roughly 30 degrees from the vertical. Since we're talking unpowered excavation technology, they dug corkscrew tunnels with tracks for removing ore & debris, then tunnled upwards into the veins. The place where the first vein touched the second was unfortunately directly under the main large shaft -- the dwarves mined it out last, because in mining that area they knew they'd risk the stability of the main shaft.

The mine has 5 entry points: one main shaft / front door and four "airshafts" (halfling or goblin sized, a dwarf couldn't even stand up straight). The goblins know about 4 of these entry points.

The kobolds who came after set up a few murder holes (still useful), dug some pits (mechanics failed long ago, but could be otherwise disguised), some mechanical tripwire traps (totally useless) and, near the Evil Conjurer's Lab, a couple of magical traps (still working just fine).

In the great big magical battle, a large explosion caused a good portion of the destablized shafts caved in. Specifically, the end of the main shaft, the area under it (where the two veins met) and half of the tunnels above it (worked by the kobolds). There's now a rough cave there, mostly filled with rubble. (Near the base of the rubble, the PCs will find the Conjurer's remains, including a fully-expended Necklace of Missiles -- whoops!)

The goblins have standard goblin-tech: low-quality rope, grumbling slave labor, native stealth and darkvision.

They've made rope webbing leading up the sides of the caved-in cavern to reach the tunnels left up there. They haven't dug deep enough to reach the lower tunnels yet. The sleeping quarters are in an upper tunnel (unreachable except via the rope-web); that's where the non-combatents live and where the goblins will retreat.

Thier main defense, however, will happen in the caved-in room. They've got piles & piles of rubble -- perfect cover for sniping. They've got a number of routes through the rubble, and will try to keep it between them and the players while shooting them. Archers will also fire down from the upper tunnels. The goblins have also been feeding a small colony of dire rats -- these will be used to attack, but not until the PCs are out on the rubble.

If the goblins know that the PCs are coming, they'll cast a Silent Image over one of the open pit traps. If they have more than an hour's warning, they'll also put some guards in two of the kobold's old murder holes (in the main shaft, halfway to the caved-in room).

The PCs could reach some of the upper tunnels from the airshafts. If the goblins discover that they did, the goblins will hide in the rubble, burn the rope web and then leave by the main entry shaft to circle around and cover the airshafts.

Now, how many defenders?

59 Rogue2 + 22 Ranger2 + 7 "Sergeants" Fighter2 / Rogue1
24 Worgs

Break that into 7 "squads" -- one will be on duty at a time, guard changes every 6 hours.
8 Rogues, 3 Rangers, 1 Sergeant
"floaters" 3 Rogues, 1 Ranger

Each entry gets two Rogues. There's one "patrol" of two Rangers on worgs sniffing around the nearby hills. One Ranger sits with a worg on top of the hill and acts as a lookout. The Sergeant on duty either naps or goes around checking up on the guards (30% chance of nap).

The worgs hang out in the valley around the main entry shaft. They'll venture a short ways inside the main shaft during storms. Thier sense of smell makes them difficult to sneak past.

If any goblin guard detects "invaders", he will alert his partner, then both will run inside to wake the others. About 50% of whatever's left of the tribe at the time will be in the mine and able to fight with 5 minutes notice -- the rest are deeply sleeping, mating, badly hung over, out hunting helpless forrest creatures, or something.

There's a 20% chance that each "major" spellcaster (the level 4 Illusionist and/or the level 3 Cleric) will be in the main chamber, since that's where they make potions. (They couldn't convince anyone to drag their stolen alchemical equipment up the rope webs into the safe tunnels.)

There's a 30% chance each is rested and ready to fight (with 5 minutes notice). There's a 20% chance each is out gathering herbs for potions & other alchemical goodies, and a 30% chance each one is unprepared for a fight and hiding somewhere.

... and that's all I've got so far for the lair. Any suggestions?

Also, any suggestions on the upcoming ambush? (The PCs have been hired as extra guards by a caravan.)

Ambush forces will be 1 squad + 1 lieutenant, for a total of 8 Rogues, 3 Rangers, 1 Fighter/Rogue, 1 mid-level Ranger (or Fighter) and 13 worgs.

-- Nifft

 

[Nail]

I'll cop to the false advertising charge ... but even if I hadn't explicitly planned to make them nibble before they learned how to bite, I'd never let them just charge in. It's all about the intel.

<nods> Yeah, an' I suppose I shoulda been thinking a bit further about how th' adventure would go down. If they had gone at it straight, they'd be in trouble, but with a normal development....they'll be fine.

Your set-up looks very good, and the chapter structure is something lots of us have used for great results. Good stuff. Again, my preference would be to multi-class more of th' goblins with rogue. But, YMMV.

You've got a kobold ghost in there, right? Sounds good.

Also, any suggestions on the upcoming ambush? (The PCs have been hired as extra guards by a caravan.)

Ambush forces will be 1 squad + 1 lieutenant, for a total of 8 Rogues, 3 Rangers, 1 Fighter/Rogue, 1 mid-level Ranger (or Fighter) and 13 worgs.

-- Nifft

Depends on what they're hitting, and how professional you want them t' be. I'd say go with "sneaky but sloppy".

Given that:

• The leader will call out th' attack, then hold back fer a round or two. Therefore, the PCs will hear a distinctive whistle (or yell, whatever) coming from off to th' side, then see goblins (or somethin' hiding in th' bushes) peppering them with arrows from two sides. I'm thinking th' leader might not engage at all......let th' grunts do it.
• Even with worgs, the goblins will want to keep their distance, out of melee. Crossbows might be better, to avoid th' strength penalty. Keep in mind cross-fire: it sounds great in theory, but in RL combat you don't wanna be 180 degrees from your friends ..... stay at 90 degrees or so. Makes fall-back easier too.
• Fer the sneak attack rogue bonus, the archers will need to be within 30 feet. So they may want to fire, then run in th' same round. No toe-to-toe combat!
• The goblins might have a pit trap or tree across th' road up ahead....as a DM try to emphasize how little actual work went into preparations. Message to PCs: goblins may be cleaver, but they're lazy b-stards.....
• Perhaps their tactic is to kill the caravan horses, then run. Then, that night, they'll ambush th' hobbled caravan. That way, they can take advantage of their darkvision and their worg-enhanced speed.
• Maybe th' whole goblin tactic is to draw the guards (the PC) away from th' caravan, into th' woods....then circle back around and grab what they can in a hurry. With those worgs out of melee combat, they remain a fast get-away.....
• The "fighter/rogue" might be in position to "pop out" to get an honest-to-goodness "backstab". Or perhaps he's part of the fall-back position.
• Do stuff to emphasize the "hit-an'-run" tactics of goblins. Disorganized, sloppy, but very sneaky and lethal.

How's that?

 

[Nail]

Alright...y'see, ye got me thinkin'......dangerous stuff, that.

Set-up: Goblin scouts see appraoching caravan along road. Goblins have a half-hour to prepare.

• Goblins find cover for the 11 grunts within 30' of the road. Two groups, about 40' from each other, on the same side of the road. The rangers in each group can be a bit farther away, since they don't need it fer th' sneak attack. Maybe put them 50' back. Dunno.
  
• The worgs for these goblins are hidden 1 movement action of "goblin running" away.
  
• The fighter/rogue is hidden with th' worgs, slightly in front. His job is to keep th' worgs in line, and provide cover fire where needed.
  
• The leader is hidden down th' road, on the same side, another 30'. He's with his worg.

Combat:
Determine who spots who, yada, yada. In a perfect world, here's th' goblins plan.

Round 0(surpise): Goblin leader whistles, then all grunts plus th' fighter/rogue fire once, at the caravan draft horses. If they're in pairs, the orders are to fire only at th' nearest one of each wagon. Since th' goblins know how many wagons an' horses (probably), th' DM might have to adjust this.

Round 1: Depends on goblin weapons. If x-bows, then they just double-move to their worgs. If bows (or whatever), then they fire again, then move to th' worgs. The fighter/rogue fires, especially if he has a x-bow, since he's just standing still this round, behind cover.

Round 2 Get th' H*ll out of dodge. Don't worry about leaving tracks. So, grunts use a move action to mount their worgs, then th' worgs use a full round action to run (x5?) outta there. Meet at some spot about 1 mile distant. Leader is still hiding...he sees if he can sneak in and grab something. Otherwise, he sneak attacks if possible, then rides off to join his comrades......


...or whatever. I think it might be neat if every goblin didn't do "th' plan" correctly,...but.....

Remember this trick: Goblin does a standard move, then a standard "mount" action. That takes a full round. But, th' worg readies an action "as soon as my goblin's aboard". His action is a full round move. So goblins go from being "just within reach" to "so long, sucker!"

How's that?