How would you do it?

[Goldmoon]

In a pervious gaming session, my 16th level rogue ended up in a fight with a single opponent. I wield a rapier and a whip and wanted to perform a manuver but my DM thought it could'nt be done. Let me describe it and get your advice on HOW and IF it could be done at all.

I wanted to bluff my opponent into freezing while I turn and run up a wall (I am adjacent to) into a backflip. I want to land my backflip on his shoulders and spring off into another backflip. While in the air I want to coil my whip around his neck, pulling him backwards to the ground and then land on him with my rapier. Lots of checks I know but CAN it be done within the rules?

 

[Someone]

Short history: you move through his space, trip and stab him. Tumble DC 20 and trip; you get the extra attack if you have improved trip.

 

[Goldmoon]

Man that seems overly-simplified....

 

[IcyCool]

I wanted to bluff my opponent into freezing while I turn and run up a wall (I am adjacent to) into a backflip. I want to land my backflip on his shoulders and spring off into another backflip. While in the air I want to coil my whip around his neck, pulling him backwards to the ground and then land on him with my rapier. Lots of checks I know but CAN it be done within the rules?

How about this (Requires Improved Trip):
Trip attack with the whip (which might provoke an attack of opportunity), then follow up with a grapple, then pin. That would use all three of your attacks for the round, and end with the foe on the foe pinned on the ground.

If you just want to knock him down and then stab him, trip (with the whip), then attack while he's prone. The rest is just flavor.

Personally, I might give you a straight up +2 bonus on an intimidate roll or something for the nice description.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Improved Trip.

The rest is all flavor. If the improved trip works, I don't care how you describe it.

Without improved trip, then it just requires you to use two-weapon fighting.

 

[Goldmoon]

How about this (Requires Improved Trip):
Trip attack with the whip (which might provoke an attack of opportunity), then follow up with a grapple, then pin. That would use all three of your attacks for the round, and end with the foe on the foe pinned on the ground.

If you just want to knock him down and then stab him, trip (with the whip), then attack while he's prone. The rest is just flavor.

Personally, I might give you a straight up +2 bonus on an intimidate roll or something for the nice description.

Thank you Icy.
Can you trip by grappling the neck though?

 

[IcyCool]

Thank you Icy.
Can you trip by grappling the neck though?

Rules-wise, it doesn't matter. There are no called shots. You use the whip to trip/knockdown your opponent. Maybe you yanked them down to the ground with a whip around the kneck, maybe you put them down with a leg sweep, maybe you put a leg behind theirs and shouldered them down, hell, maybe you put a finger on them and overwhelmed their chi with yours and sent them sprawling.

The fact is, you did something and now they are on the ground. That's what the trip mechanic is for. Neat descriptions are great for flavor.

 

[Someone]

Man that seems overly-simplified....

Not really. The rules benefit you get are those: you move through your opponent´s space, the opponent ends prone and you attack him with your rapier. Everything else is flavor; since your opponent can´t do anything to stop you, the bluffing part doesn´t matter. It´s not important if you slide under his legs, do a backflip on the wall, do a cartwheel, or dance vals with him: you move through his space. The trip rules can describe a lot of things: catching him with the whip and yanking, sweeping his legs, pushing him, or a judo trick.

So, repeating myself, three game benefits: crossing through his space, trip and stab. Tumble DC 25, trip, improved trip to get the extra attack.

Edit: TWF would also work, as pointed before.

 

[Goldmoon]

Thanks again. I always confuse my DM with my rogue's maunvers. Ill have to ask more questions here I guess.

 

[IcyCool]

Thanks again. I always confuse my DM with my rogue's maunvers. Ill have to ask more questions here I guess.

It's a great description. Next time you do something like that, try to make sure you know what mechanics you want to use, so your GMs brain doesn't explode.

Something like, "I run up the wall, lash him around the neck with my whip, pull him to the ground and stab him with my rapier. Basically I'm shooting for a fancy Improved Trip."