How would you do Minions in 3.X?

[Fenes]

I really like the minions concept, and I am wondering how best to do it in 3.X. I thought about keeping the 1 hp, and just have the minions have BAB and base saves of the class they represent (Fighter/rogue), with racial modifers from stats if appropriate, and class abilities of level 1, with optional abilities (skills if needed as level+3, higher class ability like evasion) added in if appropriate. Standard stat array (aka 0 mods).

What do you think?

 

[Orryn Emrys]

I don't see any reason that this wouldn't work, as long as you remained committed to rewarding XP appropriate to the challenge the minions actually represent. With 3.X's CR/EL system, this may require a little experimentation.

 

[Fenes]

I don't see any reason that this wouldn't work, as long as you remained committed to rewarding XP appropriate to the challenge the minions actually represent. With 3.X's CR/EL system, this may require a little experimentation.

We do not use XP in our games, so that's no problem.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I think they need to be a little more powerful than that, and can be even less detailed.
Minions just need to have attacks and defenses that can challenge the party. Otherwise they are just fodder that require a 20 to hurt PCs

The rule of thumb that I heard is that for a PC AC 10+ level is poor, 20+level is very good.
So just arbatrarily assign a minion AC of around 15+CR
the attack bonus is harder, perhaps set it so they can hit the best AC in the party on a 16+, but you may want to tinker further.
Saves should probably all based on the good save chart with an arbitratary +3 to the best save catagory. (or just +3 to the normal save progression, if you want them to suck)

Minions also do fixed damage. The latest devil excerpt lvl 5 minions = 5 damage +1 per 5 levels. While lvl 1 kobold minions did 2 damage. These numbers would work for 3.x as well.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I have been thinking about doing 3x minions for an upcomgin game as well...


perhaps we can do a rule of thumb stat-block that can be adjusted as appropriate. We really only need the combat stats and should probably have 3 or 4 'roles' that those numbers represent. All minions would have 1 hp, and generally skills don't matter. Perhaps something like:

Brute minion. This critter charges into combat, revelling in trying to dish out the greatest damage, usually with two handed weapons.

Armor Class: 15 + CR
Attack Bonus: CR + {1/2 CR}
Fort: 1/2 CR + 2
Ref: 1/3 CR
Will: 1/3 CR
Damage: CR + {1/3 CR}
Reckless Attack: lose 2 AC to gain +2 damage

Skirmisher minion. This critter uses manueverability to strike and move

Armor Class: 15 + CR
+ Feat: Mobility
Attack Bonus: CR + {1/3 CR}
Fort: 1/3 CR
Ref: 1/2 CR + 2
Will: 1/3 CR
Damage: CR + {1/5 CR}
+2 damage if moved at least 10' towards opponent this round

Ranged minion. This critter hangs in the back and plinks at the enemy, wearing minimal armor

Armor Class: 11 + CR
Attack Bonus: CR + {1/3 CR}
Fort: 1/3 CR
Ref: 1/2 CR + 2
Will: 1/3 CR
Damage: CR + {1/5 CR}
ranged attack to 30' with crit: 20/x3


Thoughts? Improvements?

Edits:
- Added ranged crit
- changed Attack Bonus to a D20 concept {oops!}


reminder, this is the generic stat block and does not get adjusted for the 'fluff' of the character. Meaning a Brute could be a well armored human Soldier, a monstrous barbarian, or a high-dex build fighter. The point of this template is to provide fast, mostly accurate minions for the PC's to wade through without having to spend alot of time figuring out the 'right' math

 

[Celebrim]

I don't see the need for them, but...

3.X 'Brutes' make good minions. By Brutes I mean having a high strength relative to thier CR. Things like Orcs, Ogres, and Hill Giants can still threaten higher level parties (in increasing numbers) even as they become increasingly squishy. A frost giants +18 to hit and considerable damage still means a threat to a party long after its CR 9 has been passed, and long after less brutish monsters of the same CR can no longer muster a credible attack. Armor such 'brutes' with superior armor and give them masterwork weapons, and at higher levels 1-4 levels of fighter and you have 3.X minions without breaking any rules.

If you want a true 4e style minion, simply take a creature ~6 below party CR and give it an extraordinary ability that arbitrarily bestows +5 to attack, +5 to AC, and +3 to saves. Viola, instant minion. For a truly squishy 4e style experience, divide hit points by 10, give them all evasion, and multiply the number of creatures you'd use by 4.

For example,

Orc
1st level Warrior Minion
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Orc)
Hit Dice: 1 (1 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (+3 studded leather armor, +5 insight), touch 15, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+4
Attack: Falchion +9 melee (2d4+4/18-20) or javelin +6 ranged (1d6+3)
Full Attack: Falchion +9 melee (2d4+4/18-20) or javelin +6 ranged (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., Evasion, light sensitivity
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +1
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 7, Cha 6
Skills: Listen +1, Spot +1
Feats: Alertness

Ogre Minion
Size/Type: Large Giant
Hit Dice: 4 (3 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 30 ft. in hide armor (6 squares);
Armor Class: 21 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +5 natural, +3 hide armor, +5 insight), touch 13, flat-footed 21
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+12
Attack: Greatclub +13 melee (2d8+7) or javelin +6 ranged (1d8+5)
Full Attack: Greatclub +13 melee (2d8+7) or javelin +6 ranged (1d8+5)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., evasion, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +3, Will +4
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 8, Con 15, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7
Skills: Climb +5, Listen +2, Spot +2
Feats: Toughness, Weapon Focus (greatclub)

Hill Giant Minion
Size/Type: Large Giant
Hit Dice: 12 (10 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 30 ft. in hide armor (6 squares); base speed 40 ft.
Armor Class: 25 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +9 natural, +3 hide armor), touch 8, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+20
Attack: Greatclub +21 melee (2d8+10) or rock +13 ranged (2d6+7)
Full Attack: Greatclub +21/+16 melee (2d8+10) or rock +13 ranged (2d6+7)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Rock throwing
Special Qualities: Evasion, low-light vision, rock catching
Saves: Fort +15, Ref +6, Will +7
Abilities: Str 25, Dex 8, Con 19, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7
Skills: Climb +7, Jump +7, Listen +3, Spot +6
Feats: Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Weapon Focus (greatclub)

You can throw a ton of those at a party without worrying about tracking hit points when a party of appropriate level makes an attack. And they still have good enough attacks to hit and worry a party 6-8 levels about the CR of the base creation.

You don't have to use any hard and fast rules either. I find the rules to be liberating; don't let them be a straight jacket.

 

[Evilhalfling]

PS where are your attack bonuses coming from?

Celebrim the damage looks way too high, at 9 damage, 2 orc minions would wipe out a low level party, PS's template damage looks better.

another important change is converting the critter to 1 attack, I ran a battle with 99 lemures vs 8th level party, last year, it would have been so much easier if they only had 1 claw attack at a higher bonus.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

To my mind, Minion encounters are more about feel and narrative, not about actual mechanics. So I've developed a system I've used in several RPG systems.

Step 1: Keep track of @ how many HP each PC has.

Step 2: Decide what your Minions look like- this gives them a weapon damage type & die, plus armor and approx HP.

Step 3: Calculate how difficult you want the minion encounter to be- Easy, Moderate, Difficult or Impossible. Easy encounters use up 0-10% of a party's resources (HP, spells, ammo, etc.), Moderate from 11-25%, and Difficult up to 40%.

Impossible encounters are just that- the party isn't supposed to win them unless you deem they've earned it by superior/surprising tactics, innovative thinking, or stupendous die rolls (like when the party's Paladin never rolls less than a 19 with her longsword for 8 rounds- been there!). They are meant to make the party make a tactical decision like retreating to a different area or to further the plot in some way like getting them captured.

Step 4: Run "combat" until party reaches proper level of attrition or narrative demands are met.

 

[meomwt]

Brute minion. This critter charges into combat, revelling in trying to dish out the greatest damage, usually with two handed weapons.

Armor Class: 15 + CR
Attack Bonus: 16 + CR
Fort: 1/2 CR + 2
Ref: 1/3 CR
Will: 1/3 CR
Damage: CR + {1/3 CR}
Reckless Attack: lose 2 AC to gain +2 damage

Skirmisher minion. This critter uses manueverability to strike and move

Armor Class: 15 + CR
+ Feat: Mobility
Attack Bonus: 12 + CR
Fort: 1/3 CR
Ref: 1/2 CR + 2
Will: 1/3 CR
Damage: CR + {1/5 CR}
+2 damage if moved at least 10' towards opponent this round

Ranged minion. This critter hangs in the back and plinks at the enemy, wearing minimal armor

Armor Class: 11 + CR
Attack Bonus: 14 + CR
Fort: 1/3 CR
Ref: 1/2 CR + 2
Will: 1/3 CR
Damage: CR + {1/5 CR}
ranged attack to 30'

These templates look usable, but the Ranged Minion seems in need of a little love.

How about giving him/ her/ it Crit: 20/ x3 so that on a good shot, it will really hurt the PC's and give them something to think about

<where's the evil smilie gone, then?>

 

[Fenes]

For my game, I think I'll stick with basic AC (aka armor, maybe dex in some cases), attack=CR for "brutes", and basic weapon damage (maybe some bonus for "brutes" and "rogues"). We've got less magic (no amulets of natural armor, no stat boosters), so it should be enough. 1/3 and 1/2 for saves looks right though.