How would you fix the Paladin's Mark?

[Daniel D. Fox]

Here's what I'd revise it to be:

Paladin's Mark
Minor/Encounter

Paladin's mark inflicts a penalty of -2 to the foe if she doesn't engage the Paladin in either Ranged or Melee combat. While the Paladin fights against the foe, she may add a d8 Radiant damage to Melee damage.

(meaning, Paladins have to physically engage the foe with a melee weapon, reaching back to 1st edition ranged weapons seen as "cowardly" amongst Paladins)

 

[Mephistopheles]

Mephistopheles- While technically the Paladin could game the mark a bit even with my rules edit, it makes things much less likely. A Paladin who marked a target and then in some way refused to fight would be depriving the party of the rest of his contributions just to put a single enemy in a conundrum.

I did consider that but figured maybe he could be doing other things in the meantime. You nailed the spirit of the solution in any case.

Thinking about it made me think of the Cavalier from Dragon/1E UA that has the clause about using reach or ranged weapons being against their code.

 

[Tuft]

Either Mearls or Heinsoo mentioned at one of our tables that they thought the 8 damage thing was a misprint, and that it was supposed to be d8...which puts it in line with other powers we saw.

-Matt

Even more reason to keep bashing the wizard...

 

[FourthBear]

However we did ask Chris if we marked a monster and them put up a wall of fire would the creature try to go through the fire to get to the Paladin. He said yes it would, it would do whatever it could to try to get to the Paladin, as long as he could see him. Plus the creature could use ranged attacks or special abilities (such as a breath weapon) to attack the Paladin.

I'm not sure I understand some elements of this explanation.

1) In the official Divine Challenge, the marked creature *only* takes damage if it makes an attack other than the paladin (note by the sheet it's not clear this this attack counts if its against an object rather than another creature). So the marked creature could cast a defensive spell, run around in combat or sit down and knit and it wouldn't take any damage at all. So there shouldn't be any question about simply movement or time causing damage. It's got to attack not-Paladin to trigger anything.

2) This bit about the Wall of Fire makes it sound like there's a compulsion or something at work. Why would the creature do whatever it could to get to the paladin? As far as I know, it can do whatever it wants, just that there will be consequences if it attacks non-paladin.

 

[Tuft]

Why would the creature do whatever it could to get to the paladin? As far as I know, it can do whatever it wants, just that there will be consequences if it attacks non-paladin.

Especially when the consequences of going after the Paladin is worse. The target has better AC (even counting the -2 of the marks effect), more hit points, etc.

And considering leaving a wizard to go off fighting the paladin. You go from facing the Wizard's melee attacks and the Paladin's ranged attacks to face the Wizard's ranged attacks and the Paladin's melee attacks. Which combination is worse for you?

 

[fafhrd]

And considering leaving a wizard to go off fighting the paladin. You go from facing the Wizard's melee attacks and the Paladin's ranged attacks to face the Wizard's ranged attacks and the Paladin's melee attacks. Which combination is worse for you?

The wizard's close blast attacks plus the paladin's melee attacks plus the radiant damage. Paladin is mobile too ya know.

 

[Tuft]

The wizard's close blast attacks plus the paladin's melee attacks plus the radiant damage. Paladin is mobile too ya know.

No different than it would have been without Marks, then.

Plus, the context were:

we did ask Chris if we marked a monster and them put up a wall of fire would the creature try to go through the fire to get to the Paladin. He said yes it would, it would do whatever it could to try to get to the Paladin,

and the question was: Why?

 

[fafhrd]

No different than it would have been without Marks, then.

Not entirely correct. The radiant damage is extra.

and the question was: Why?

It's a good question. Either marking has changed significantly from what was revealed at DDXP or Chris was confused. I'm betting on the latter.

 

[Sphyre]

Easy fix in my opinion:

If, on the paladins turn, he moves away from the mark and ends up more than 5 squares away, the mark is removed.

This means that if he gets pushed away, the mark stays. If he goes to help an ally 2 spaces away, it still stays. But if he starts high tailing it out of there, the mark is removed. This doesn't stop people from immobilizing the target and the paladin not being around, but the immobilization can cause the mark to not even have a chance to attack in the first place.

But, since it's fixed, my fix is worthless.

 

[zephen18]

and the question was: Why?

From the Paladin's DDXP sheet, under Divine Challenge.

Special: Even though this ability is called a challenge, it doesn't rely on the intelligence or language ability of the target. It's a magical compulsion that affects the creature's behavior, regardless of the creature's nature. You can't place a divine challenge on a creature that is already affected by your divine challenge.


My guess on the fluff is that the creature is compelled to answer the paladin's challenge, and is damaged/distracted by the divine nature of the compulsion if he ignores it.