D&D General How would you handle this encounter?

[Oofta]

I wanted to share a slightly edited/abbreviated/simplified/paraphrased version of a recent encounter. I'm curious how other people would have run this or similar scenarios. I know I don't own the thread, but I was curious to see if we could just discuss a simple example or provide other brief glimpses into actual game play.

The group is in a particularly dangerous corner of the world and Rae's PC has been separated from the group after bravely retreating. She stumbles on a small cottage with an old woman outside. After some brief introductions Rae is invited inside and served tea by the old woman, Granny.

The scene starts with Rae's PC sitting at the table. I've added my thoughts in brackets.

DM: in my best old woman voice* "Here you go honey, you look like you've had a tough day. Have some tea."​

Rae: "Do I see her pouring both cups?"​

DM: "Yep, she set the cups on the table in plain sight and poured both at the same time."​

[No check, the tea was poured out in the open in plain sight.]​

Rae: "I want to smell the tea, can I tell if it's okay?"​

DM: "Sure. You hold the cup up to your nose and take a deep whiff. Give me a perception check."​

Rae: rolling dice "Ugh. That's only an 8."​

DM: "It smells like mint tea."​

[Rae said what she was doing (smelling the tea) and I asked for a perception check. I don't allow re-rolls for things like this unless something changes. If for some reason she hadn't wanted to take a deep whiff she could have stopped me right there. She could have also described it in more detail, but she didn't]​

Rae: "Can I get a medicine check?"​

DM: "You think you'd have to take a small sip. You can probably spit it out if your tongue tingles or goes numb."​

Rae: "Okay, I get a 15 this time."​

[She then asked for a medicine check. Because it wasn't clear what she was doing, I let her know she'd have to take a sip of the tea before proceeding and a general idea of the risk. She was also doing something different than just smelling or getting another perception check.]​

DM: "It's good, you detect nothing unusual. Granny looks at you, sipping her own tea and says 'Oh, deary it's just tea. If I wanted to kill you, you'd already be dead' with a wink."​

[Rae didn't mention anything about being subtle, Granny didn't need to make a check to see what Rae was doing.]​

The scene continues. My point to this is that to me this was a very natural conversation. It didn't really matter whether whether the tea was poisoned or not, Rae was paranoid and the skill checks just reflected the actions her PC was taking. It also added a sense of uncertainty and tension for Rae that she would not have had if I had not called for or allowed checks. It was fun. If Rae had pestered me with checks (she doesn't) we may have to have a chat, but that's never been an issue in any of my games.

This is just a simple example of the start of a fun little encounter. Can you run through this scenario with your style of play? Or give an example of something similar and how you handled it?

*Side note: I know not everyone is into acting, but when I do this I try to imitate an old woman. Hunch over, squint, high creaky voice, maybe have a shaky hand wave the PC into the cottage and so on. People learn by doing, so I've gotten better at it over the years. I hope.

 

[Nebulous]

Haha, this is pretty much the same reaction from my players when anyone is EVER cordial and nice to them. Last time it was Bag of Nails in Tomb, and yeah, he poisoned the tabaxi.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

DM: Granny sets two tea cups, one with a sun design and one with a moon design, out on the table at which you sit. She then fills two sachets with dried ingredients from a translucent jar. She brings the kettle over to the table and pours steaming hot water over the sachets which she had previously placed into each tea cup. In my best old woman voice: "Here you go honey, you look like you've had a tough day. Have some tea."
Rae: My PC smells the tea to see if there are any strange odors. [not sure what type of character Rae is playing here, but if they are proficient with an herbalism kit or posioner's kit, she might append this goal and approach with "that I recognize from my study of herbs/poisons/whatever"]
DM: Smells like strong mint tea. Granny breaths in the tea steam, too, a bit deeper than you did and comments "isn't the wintermint essence so calming?"
Rae: "Yes, quite." My PC takes the tiniest of sips to see if I notice any adverse reaction on my tongue.
DM: It's quite tingly, but in a refreshing, ultra-minty kind of way. Granny looks at you, sipping her own tea and says, "Oh, deary it's just tea. If I wanted to kill you, you'd already be dead," giving you a knowing wink. "Would you like any honey, honey, in your tea?"

[there are all kinds of possible permutations here: the tea is poisoned/drugged/enchanted but the poison/drug/enchantment can(not) be detected by smell and/or taste and/or sight and/or magic. and more. Let's say there is poison present in the tea cup that is a sleeping draught that can only be detected by taste or magic here's what might change]

...
Rae: "Yes, quite." My PC takes the tiniest of sips to see if I notice any adverse reaction on my tongue.
DM: It's quite tingly. Roll a Wisdom check, DC 15, feel free to add a pertinent proficiency. If you succeed I'll let you know if there is anything funny going on in the cup. If you fail, it won't be easy to tell and even the small amount you tasted might require a saving throw.
Rae: I'll add my proficiency in Medicine. 17 - Phew!
DM: Great! There is definitely something funny going on in the tea - almost like a Bedtime tea on steroids. Granny's eyes sparkle with pride and, from the look on her face, it seems you've passed some kind of test...
...
or
Rae: I'll add my proficiency in Medicine. 14 - oops!
DM: Something is not quite right. Your eyes start to blur. Make a Constitution Save, DC 18.
Rae: Ugh 7.
DM: You see two Grannys with crooked smiles stand up and their voice is low and slow but unintelligible. The last thing you notice before you lose consciousness is the moon (or is it two or three moons) on your tea cup as your head hits the table and all goes black. And... back to the rest of the party!
Rae: The moon cup! Dangit Granny!
...

 

[DND_Reborn]

Me to Rae:

You go inside and the old woman pours you both some tea. It tastes good and you feel a bit better.
(Rolls d8 and gets a 5). You gain 5 hp back.
Rae: I ask her how she's survived out here by herself?
and so on...

Unless there is significance to something, we don't spend a lot of time on such things.

 

[Oofta]

Haha, this is pretty much the same reaction from my players when anyone is EVER cordial and nice to them. Last time it was Bag of Nails in Tomb, and yeah, he poisoned the tabaxi.

In all fairness, the map did indicate "Here there be monsters", and from her perspective it had been 100% accurate up to that point.

 

[Oofta]

Me to Rae:

You go inside and the old woman pours you both some tea. It tastes good and you feel a bit better.
(Rolls d8 and gets a 5). You gain 5 hp back.
Rae: I ask her how she's survived out here by herself?
and so on...

Unless there is significance to something, we don't spend a lot of time on such things.

Rae: "How have you survived out here this long?"​

Granny replies "That's a long story, sit down and we'll have some tea while we chat".​

Was part of the story I skipped over.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Rae: "How have you survived out here this long?"​

Granny replies "That's a long story, sit down and we'll have some tea while we chat".​

Was part of the story I skipped over.

Ah, in that case it would probably go like this:

Rae: I sit down, but I don't know if I can trust her. Can I roll Insight to see if I feel she means me harm?
DM: Sure, go ahead. Roll with Wisdom and add proficiency for Insight if you have it.
Rae: I got a 18 total.
DM: Yeah, she seems friendly and trustworthy. She pours the tea.
Rae: Ok, if I think I can trust her I drink it.
DM: It tastes slightly minty. (I roll) You feel its warmth calming you and recover 5 hit points.
Rae: Cool. I ask her how she's survived out here by herself.
and so on...

 

[Charlaquin]

I wanted to share a slightly edited/abbreviated/simplified/paraphrased version of a recent encounter. I'm curious how other people would have run this or similar scenarios. I know I don't own the thread, but I was curious to see if we could just discuss a simple example or provide other brief glimpses into actual game play.

The group is in a particularly dangerous corner of the world and Rae's PC has been separated from the group after bravely retreating. She stumbles on a small cottage with an old woman outside. After some brief introductions Rae is invited inside and served tea by the old woman, Granny.

The scene starts with Rae's PC sitting at the table. I've added my thoughts in brackets.

DM: in my best old woman voice* "Here you go honey, you look like you've had a tough day. Have some tea."​

Rae: "Do I see her pouring both cups?"​

DM: "Yep, she set the cups on the table in plain sight and poured both at the same time."​

[No check, the tea was poured out in the open in plain sight.]​

Rae: "I want to smell the tea, can I tell if it's okay?"​

DM: "Sure. You hold the cup up to your nose and take a deep whiff. Give me a perception check."​

Rae: rolling dice "Ugh. That's only an 8."​

DM: "It smells like mint tea."​

[Rae said what she was doing (smelling the tea) and I asked for a perception check. I don't allow re-rolls for things like this unless something changes. If for some reason she hadn't wanted to take a deep whiff she could have stopped me right there. She could have also described it in more detail, but she didn't]​

Rae: "Can I get a medicine check?"​

DM: "You think you'd have to take a small sip. You can probably spit it out if your tongue tingles or goes numb."​

Rae: "Okay, I get a 15 this time."​

[She then asked for a medicine check. Because it wasn't clear what she was doing, I let her know she'd have to take a sip of the tea before proceeding and a general idea of the risk. She was also doing something different than just smelling or getting another perception check.]​

DM: "It's good, you detect nothing unusual. Granny looks at you, sipping her own tea and says 'Oh, deary it's just tea. If I wanted to kill you, you'd already be dead' with a wink."​

[Rae didn't mention anything about being subtle, Granny didn't need to make a check to see what Rae was doing.]​

The scene continues. My point to this is that to me this was a very natural conversation. It didn't really matter whether whether the tea was poisoned or not, Rae was paranoid and the skill checks just reflected the actions her PC was taking. It also added a sense of uncertainty and tension for Rae that she would not have had if I had not called for or allowed checks. It was fun. If Rae had pestered me with checks (she doesn't) we may have to have a chat, but that's never been an issue in any of my games.

This is just a simple example of the start of a fun little encounter. Can you run through this scenario with your style of play? Or give an example of something similar and how you handled it?

*Side note: I know not everyone is into acting, but when I do this I try to imitate an old woman. Hunch over, squint, high creaky voice, maybe have a shaky hand wave the PC into the cottage and so on. People learn by doing, so I've gotten better at it over the years. I hope.

Nice! Sounds like a fun scene. Unsurprisingly, I would have run it differently, but the most important thing is that you and your player had a good time and created a memorable story.

Since you asked, if I had been the DM, I wouldn’t have asked for a Perception check when Rae said she wanted to smell the tea. From her comment “I want to smell the tea, can I tell if it’s ok?” I can easily surmise that her goal is to find out if there is anything wrong with the tea and her approach is to smell it. Since there is nothing wrong with the tea, there is no way this approach will achieve her goal, so I would simply skip the next two lines and go straight to “it smells like mint tea.”

Now, Rae might take this to mean that, since there was no check called for, there is nothing wrong with the tea. However, that would be a dangerous assumption, since it is equally possible that there is something wrong with it, but that it can’t be detected by scent. Especially if Rae suspects poison, most (good) poisons are odorless in lethal doses. So it makes sense that she might want to follow this up, just like she did in your game.

When Rae asks to make a Medicine check, I can guess that she probably still wants to know if the tea is poisoned or otherwise “off,” and that she thinks her Proficiency in Medicine would help her achieve that goal. But I can’t surmise what her character is doing to try to determine that, so I would ask her to clarify.

At that point, she might suggest taking a small sip and spitting it out if it tastes “off,” or she might say that she’s trying to draw on her training in Medicine to try to recall any deadly poisons that are odorless, tasteless, and dissolve instantly in liquid (heh). Or she might suggest something else entirely. At this point it becomes very difficult to say what I would do without knowing what Rae would do.

Another possibility is that Rae struggles to come up with an approach that might employ her training in Medicine and help her determine if the tea is poisoned. If I were getting the sense that this was the case, I might step in with that narration, “Granny looks at you, sipping her own tea and says 'Oh, deary it's just tea. If I wanted to kill you, you'd already be dead' with a wink,” to keep the flow of the game going and hopefully reassure Rae, rather than risk the pace breaking down as Rae tries to finagle an approach.

 

[Beleriphon]

The group is in a particularly dangerous corner of the world and Rae's PC has been separated from the group after bravely retreating. She stumbles on a small cottage with an old woman outside. After some brief introductions Rae is invited inside and served tea by the old woman, Granny.

.....

*Side note: I know not everyone is into acting, but when I do this I try to imitate an old woman. Hunch over, squint, high creaky voice, maybe have a shaky hand wave the PC into the cottage and so on. People learn by doing, so I've gotten better at it over the years. I hope.

Even if you haven't gotten better, its worth the effort. Even if its just to get a laugh from the group over your terrible "old lady" voice. One thing I recommend is try standing up and walking in a few circles around the table while talking using different types of footsteps. Big ones like you're wearing boots three sizes too big for an ogre, tiny little ones for Granny.

One how to play it out here's how I would handle it:

DM: <Granny's intro>
Player: She's too nice, I want to figure out if she's going to poison the tea.
DM: Cool. Want to do anything in particular?
Player: I'm not sure, I don't want to have play a game of The Sicilian. Maybe it smells weird?
DM: Alright, lets use Widsom (Perception) and see what happens.
Player: Ooof, and 8.
DM: Rae doesn't smell anything other than mint tea.
Player: Still don't like this, can I taste it a bit and see if that helps?
DM: Sure, still going to be Wisdom. Any proficiency you think might help?
Player: Maybe medicine? I figure I should be able to figure it out if it tastes off, or feels tingly.
DM: I like it, Wisdom (Medicine) it is.
Player: 15, way better!
DM: All Rae can taste is mint tea. Granny gives you an odd look, "Deary, if I wanted to kill you I wouldn't have asked you in."
<play continue>

The one big difference between my way and yours Oofta is that I'm putting the narration of character action into the player's hands at every stage. So they tell me what they think their character is doing, if they don't know or can't figure it out I'll usually give them some suggestions, or ask a few probing questions to get them thinking. I don't want to narrate their actions, just the results. I mean that literally I don't want to have to narrate the character actions, that should be up to the players to provide to the group.

 

[Oofta]

I do admit I like to imbue campaigns with a certain sense of paranoia at times depending on the campaign. Other games have mechanical ways of doing that which are lacking in D&D. That's my reason for the checks even though the tea was not poisoned. The crumpets on the other hand...

The other thing though, is that sometimes I think we lose sight of the fact that we do this because we want to have fun telling stories and playing a game. But each person has to find their own voice and their own style. I think that's something I forget myself at times (or don't make it clear).

 

[Celebrim]

Probably the same exactly the same down to my preference for trying to give characters distinctive voices and mannerisms, but since this is a situation where the player cannot get immediate feedback as to how well they are performing, I would have rolled the perception checks by the player. Thus, there would be no relief to the players suspicions had they rolled particularly well. All the player would know is that they aren't detecting anything unusual. Whether being paranoid around 'granny' mildly offends her, mildly amuses her, or earns some level of respect would depend on the personality I'd given the character, but would collectively along with the rest of the RP in the scene go to deciding the difficulty of any initial reaction check to see if 'granny' likes the character.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I'd only say that when the player/PC says they are suspicious about the tea and that's why they're smelling it then the perception check is appropriate, but the results are irrelevant because there is nothing to perceive. After all, if the check is failed has the PC failed to perceive that tea is tea? I would reply enthusiastically that the player perceives nothing of significance, being firm without saying so outright, that the die roll means nothing. Nothing is there to perceive - or a rare possibility that perception wouldn't find anything even if there were something afoot. By stating suspicion the player earns the right to more information that either confirms or subverts their suspicion. The perception check gives them that information. The request for a medicine check however is redundant and I would simply respond, "You don't need one. It's just tea." Again, that would be regardless of the Perception check. Only if there WERE something to detect (good or bad) and the perception check was a failure, would any kind of additional roll be warranted.

For the same reason that I would be reluctant to have a PC keep making checks of some kind until they finally fail and I could then more easily inflict something nefarious upon them, I'm not going to let players keep making checks of some kind until they succeed and they can AVOID something nefarious happening to their PC. If the player wants to try to detect poison then it is up to the player to decide how best to do that.

Let's assume for a moment that there is poison in the tea. Assuming also that the poison could be detected by either a medicine or perception check the player can choose which check works best for them. If they have more bonuses to apply to a medicine check then they can use that. If they don't know which would be better from a mechanical standpoint they can ask. How the game mechanics work (or how I choose to have them work) is not information I have a right to keep secret from them. But one check of one kind would be all they'd get and that's pass/fail. That's also how the mechanics work. They can't just keep trying to find ways to argue that other checks could also be used to detect the poison and that they get to try them all until they succeed or run out of other checks to weasel into, I don't care how paranoid they or their PC's are.

 

[Oofta]

Some of this also gets down to basic philosophy. In general I don't tell players what the PCs don't know. While there's an exception to every rule (if too much time is being wasted, it's not fun, etc) I'd rather not tell Rae that the tea was just tea.

But without reasonable investigation, Rae had no way of knowing because her PC had no way of knowing. For me, it's more fun if I don't know what's going on, even though I try not to act on meta-game knowledge.

 

[5ekyu]

Two differences...

This bit would have not happened... "Rae didn't mention anything about being subtle, "

I dont require players to bullet proof their exchanges by covering every possible contingency. So, whether granny noticed the efforts or not and put it together would be comparing passive scores in insight snd deception.

The same exact exchange might have occurred but due to character stats, not whether the PC went into every possible facet of their part of the scene verbally.

Also, the assumption of heavy vs light slip would be a quick ask, followed by a choice on advsntage or disadvantage etc.

 

[Oofta]

Two differences...

This bit would have not happened... "Rae didn't mention anything about being subtle, "

I dont require players to bullet proof their exchanges by covering every possible contingency. So, whether granny noticed the efforts or not and put it together would be comparing passive scores in insight snd deception.

The same exact exchange might have occurred but due to character stats, not whether the PC went into every possible facet of their part of the scene verbally.

Also, the assumption of heavy vs light slip would be a quick ask, followed by a choice on advsntage or disadvantage etc.

Fair enough on Rae being subtle. One of those cases where I knew it wasn't dangerous otherwise I might prompt.

 

[Harzel]

Let's assume for a moment that there is poison in the tea. Assuming also that the poison could be detected by either a medicine or perception check the player can choose which check works best for them. If they have more bonuses to apply to a medicine check then they can use that. If they don't know which would be better from a mechanical standpoint they can ask. How the game mechanics work (or how I choose to have them work) is not information I have a right to keep secret from them. But one check of one kind would be all they'd get and that's pass/fail. That's also how the mechanics work. They can't just keep trying to find ways to argue that other checks could also be used to detect the poison and that they get to try them all until they succeed or run out of other checks to weasel into, I don't care how paranoid they or their PC's are.

Ok, is the you-only-get-one-shot-at-this approach only for perception-y kinds of things, or do you apply it generally. For example, upon encountering the canonical locked door, do your players' PC only get to try one of picking the lock or bashing it down?

 

[ad_hoc]

No checks required.

I think calling for so many checks really waters them down.

My rule of thumb is that it should be exciting to roll a 20. In this case if the player rolled a 20 and you said nothing happens/you don't learn anything, well, that doesn't seem fun to me.

If I were to call a skill into the situation I would probably look at the character's passive nature score.

I don't think perception or medicine fit. Perception is for seeing the tea which you do. Medicine is for treating disease which we could extrapolate to poison but not for detecting it.

FWIW Xanathar's suggests proficiency with a poisoner's kit can allow for an investigation or perception check of DC 10 to detect a poison. Though, I think, this is using the kit.

Let's say the PC didn't see the woman pouring the cups and wanted to switch them while her back was turned. That would be a great time to call for a sleight of hand check with failure resulting in being caught out. A 20 here would be exciting because something happened and there was real alarm for failure.

 

[Krachek]

Rae situation can go much worse.
“May I have cookies?”

 

[Legatus Legionis]

.

 

[Shiroiken]

The scene starts with Rae's PC sitting at the table. I've added my thoughts in brackets.

DM: in my best old woman voice* "Here you go honey, you look like you've had a tough day. Have some tea."​

Rae: "Do I see her pouring both cups?"​

DM: "Yep, she set the cups on the table in plain sight and poured both at the same time."​

[No check, the tea was poured out in the open in plain sight.]​

Rae: "I want to smell the tea, can I tell if it's okay?"​

DM: "Sure. You hold the cup up to your nose and take a deep whiff. Give me a perception check."​

Rae: rolling dice "Ugh. That's only an 8."​

DM: "It smells like mint tea."​

​

​

While fun, I would have jumped to the following part, because she's obviously eyeing the tea warily.​

​

DM: "Granny looks at you, sipping her own tea and says 'Oh, deary it's just tea. If I wanted to kill you, you'd already be dead' with a wink."​

[Rae didn't mention anything about being subtle, Granny didn't need to make a check to see what Rae was doing.]​

Unless she was subtle or "Granny" had a reason otherwise, I don't understand why she'd wait for Rae to fully examine the tea before commenting.