How would you improve 4e class powers?
- Thread starter Najo
- Start date
JackSmithIV
First Post
As of now, impossible to say. I don't think anyone can make any solid judgements that don't have to do with just disliking the current edition and how they handle things, which has been explored extensively in other threads that are even now on the front page of the forums.
Powers probably could be improved. For now, I'd like to see more people talking about 4E than 4.5 or 5 or whatever comes after.
Powers probably could be improved. For now, I'd like to see more people talking about 4E than 4.5 or 5 or whatever comes after.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Like: An interesting choice at every level. Fighters with more to do than swing swords. Differing builds.
Dislike: A bewildering stack of 20 powers. Sameness. Rogues are ninjas. Difficult multiclassing.
Solution: Blow up the powers system. Re-build it from scratch where each class has about 4 basic abilities that get modified and upgraded as you advance in level. Maybe 1-2 new special powers per teir (perhaps your Paragon Path adds a new power and your Epic Destiny adds a new power), tying powers very closely with classes. Ramp up the dramatic difference between the abilities so that each class feels unique.
Kind of....build powers more like 4e builds magic items.
Dislike: A bewildering stack of 20 powers. Sameness. Rogues are ninjas. Difficult multiclassing.
Solution: Blow up the powers system. Re-build it from scratch where each class has about 4 basic abilities that get modified and upgraded as you advance in level. Maybe 1-2 new special powers per teir (perhaps your Paragon Path adds a new power and your Epic Destiny adds a new power), tying powers very closely with classes. Ramp up the dramatic difference between the abilities so that each class feels unique.
Kind of....build powers more like 4e builds magic items.
Kind of....build powers more like 4e builds magic items.
Can you give me an example of how you envision class powers written up as magic items? Don't worry about balance issues, just throw something together in a format to show your idea please.
A problem is that daily powers should probably almost never be recoverable, but encounter powers should be more easily recoverable. Particularly when you miss with an encounter power (assuming no effect on a miss), you should probably be able to do something to get it back (maybe spend a move action "focusing" or something).
The way daily powers that have encounter duration effects work in big battles is very swingy. If you hit with them early on the fight becomes really easy, but if you miss with them early on the fight can spiral out of control.
I'd like to have seen the players build up more encounter powers as the levels go higher, not top out at 3 plus the Paragon Power. It's an easy house-rule to change though. The trouble is that everyone suffers from the 3e sorcerer effect now: they publish more and more powers but a given character can only know just a few.
The way daily powers that have encounter duration effects work in big battles is very swingy. If you hit with them early on the fight becomes really easy, but if you miss with them early on the fight can spiral out of control.
I'd like to have seen the players build up more encounter powers as the levels go higher, not top out at 3 plus the Paragon Power. It's an easy house-rule to change though. The trouble is that everyone suffers from the 3e sorcerer effect now: they publish more and more powers but a given character can only know just a few.
Jack99
Adventurer
Spells should more or less be kept as is, but with more powers that inflict conditions.
For martial characters, an idea could be to do the following.
At-will powers should all do 1[w] at level 1-20, and 2[w] at level 21-30.
Encounter powers should all do 2[w] at level 1-12, 3[w] at level 13-22 and 4[w] at level 23-30
Daily powers should all do 3[w] at level 1-8, 4[w] at level 9-18, 5[w] at level 19-28 and 6[w] at level 29-30
A martial character would still get the same number of powers, but their damage depend on your level, not when you get it.
Then, the martial classes should have to buy (feats or otherwise) “special moves” to those powers.
You then have the possibility to add the special move to any power, as long as it is possible. For example, you could buy a special move called: Trip.
Trip: -1[w], target reflex instead. Effect: target is knocked prone
So, if you use trip with an at-will power , you would do 0[w] (you can never have a combination of power and special move that gives a negative [w], and in this case, 0[w] means just stat modifier and other bonuses) and trip the target, knocking it prone. If you use it with a daily at level 22, you would do 4[w] and knock it prone.
Another example:
Improved trip: -3[w], target reflex instead. Effect: target is knocked prone and dazed.
That would mean you wouldn’t be able to do that with at-wills, nor encounter powers at before you are level 13.
Of course, this isn’t balanced, but I am sure the idea is understandable
It would be easy to have all sorts of “special moves” like shift 1 before attack, or push target 1 that do not have a [w] cost, but can just be applied as it fits combat. The more hefty conditional stuff, like stun, dazed, immobilized etc should carry a more significant [w] cost.
It would also be easy to make a power attack “special move”
Power Attack: +1[w] Effect: -3 to hit (for example).
You could even combine those moves, so that if you at level 30 use a daily power to power attack and improved trip, you would get Improved Trip with
Power Attack: 6[w]-3[w]+1[w]= 4[w] Effect: -2 to hit, target reflex and target is knocked prone and dazed.
Obvioulsly you would need to work on some sort of balance...
For martial characters, an idea could be to do the following.
At-will powers should all do 1[w] at level 1-20, and 2[w] at level 21-30.
Encounter powers should all do 2[w] at level 1-12, 3[w] at level 13-22 and 4[w] at level 23-30
Daily powers should all do 3[w] at level 1-8, 4[w] at level 9-18, 5[w] at level 19-28 and 6[w] at level 29-30
A martial character would still get the same number of powers, but their damage depend on your level, not when you get it.
Then, the martial classes should have to buy (feats or otherwise) “special moves” to those powers.
You then have the possibility to add the special move to any power, as long as it is possible. For example, you could buy a special move called: Trip.
Trip: -1[w], target reflex instead. Effect: target is knocked prone
So, if you use trip with an at-will power , you would do 0[w] (you can never have a combination of power and special move that gives a negative [w], and in this case, 0[w] means just stat modifier and other bonuses) and trip the target, knocking it prone. If you use it with a daily at level 22, you would do 4[w] and knock it prone.
Another example:
Improved trip: -3[w], target reflex instead. Effect: target is knocked prone and dazed.
That would mean you wouldn’t be able to do that with at-wills, nor encounter powers at before you are level 13.
Of course, this isn’t balanced, but I am sure the idea is understandable
It would be easy to have all sorts of “special moves” like shift 1 before attack, or push target 1 that do not have a [w] cost, but can just be applied as it fits combat. The more hefty conditional stuff, like stun, dazed, immobilized etc should carry a more significant [w] cost.
It would also be easy to make a power attack “special move”
Power Attack: +1[w] Effect: -3 to hit (for example).
You could even combine those moves, so that if you at level 30 use a daily power to power attack and improved trip, you would get Improved Trip with
Power Attack: 6[w]-3[w]+1[w]= 4[w] Effect: -2 to hit, target reflex and target is knocked prone and dazed.
Obvioulsly you would need to work on some sort of balance...
