How would you model squad-level mass combat in 4e?

[Nahat Anoj]

I'm thinking about treating units as swarms. Basically, a bunch of minions in close formation. Most such swarms would be standard monsters, but elite or solo swarms would represent tougher armies/units. I think this is a good basic idea, but I need to look into various mass combat systems and try to mine them for ideas and variations on the whole swarm theme.

 

[the Jester]

Okay, so tonight's game will be the first actual attempt to use the rules I've put together (although I've run a couple of playtests on earlier versions of the rules).

Early playtesting told me, basically, keep it simple. I have 8 players (though only prolly half will be at tonight's game, ahh the holidays), at least one of whom is generally not very interested in wargaming and at least one of whom doesn't seem to have the right kind of brain for unit-level tactical play.

That said, here is what I have worked up- and hopefully, it's a concise, relatively simple use of the 4e engine.


What Stat Do I Use When Attacking with a Unit?
When you attack with a unit, you may use whichever stat applies based on the following limitations:

Strength can be used in a melee unit if you are actually personally fighting with the unit.

Constitution can be used if the attacking unit is bloodied.

Dexterity can be used in a ranged unit if you are actually personally fighting with the unit.

Intelligence or Wisdom can be used as long as you can see a substantial portion of the battlefield.

Charisma can always be used.

FORMATIONS OF UNITS:
When several units of the same type are adjacent to each other, they may be treated as a single unit of that type for most purposes. Thus, an entire formation of pikemen can be commanded to charge with a single standard action.

SPECIAL RULES FOR UNIT COMBAT:
Morale Checks: Whenever a unit has to make a morale check, it makes a saving throw with a bonus equal to its commander’s charisma bonus. If the unit is bloodied, it has a -2 to its morale checks. Some units have additional morale bonuses. In general, a unit makes a morale check when bloodied, or a formation makes a morale check when reduced to half its starting number of units.

In Control, Under Control and Out of Control: A unit that has not failed a morale check is “In Control.” A unit that fails one morale check is “Under Control,” and suffers a -1 to attacks, defenses and speed. A unit that fails two morale checks is out of control completely and seeks to escape the battlefield with all haste.

Facing: Units and formations have facing. Missile units have a 180 degree field of fire in front of them. Melee units can attack in any direction, but have a -2 penalty on attacks in directions they aren’t facing. Furthermore, if a unit or formation is attacked from a direction it is not facing, the attacker gains combat advantage.

BUT WHAT CAN I DO?
A unit can take one standard action per round. The leader may take this standard action or the unit may take this standard action; if the leader spends an action point, the leader (not the unit) may take an extra standard action. In some cases, the commander can combine his action with his formation’s action. The possible actions include:

Rallying Troops: The commander of the unit may make a rally check as a standard action. This is a Bluff, Diplomacy or Intimidate check with a DC of 15. If it succeeds, the unit gets a new morale check, and if this check succeeds, the unit moves up one notch on the control ladder (from out of control to under control or from under control to in control).

Area Powers: A commander may use area powers as a standard action to aid their unit if it is already attacking. The commander expends the power and the unit makes an attack with a bonus to attack and damage equal to ½ the power’s level. The standard action includes both the commander’s area power and the formation’s attack.

Melee Powers: A commander of a melee unit who is personally leading the troops may spend a standard action to use a melee power that deals 2[W] or more damage in conjunction with his formation’s attack. This grants the formation a damage bonus equal to the damage multiplier of the attack (e.g. a 2[W] attack gives a +2 damage bonus).

Ranged Powers: A commander of a ranged unit who is personally leading the troops may spend a standard action to use a ranged power that deals 2[W] or more damage in conjunction with his formation’s attack. This grants the formation a damage bonus equal to the damage multiplier of the attack (e.g. a 2[W] attack gives a +2 damage bonus).

Marking: The formation of a commander with the ability to mark enemies can mark an enemy unit or formation just as its commander can, including the use of combat superiority or other similar abilities.

Second Wind: A commander can allow a unit can take a second wind once per encounter, regaining the listed hit points. If the leader has an ability that heals, the unit’s healing surge value is increased by 2. This is a standard action.


WHAT CAN UNITS DO?
Move: As a move action, the unit can move its speed in the direction in which it is facing. It can move in other directions, but it requires one extra square of movement per square to do so. All units move in the same direction, but the commander of the formation may choose to move some less than the rest or not at all.

Turn: As a minor action, a unit or formation may change facing up to 1 side of a hex or square.

Wheel: A formation can also wheel around to change not just facing but also orientation. Thus, a unit shaped like this: XXXX might wish instead to look like this:
X
X
X
X
Executing this maneuver requires “wheeling the unit.” This requires a standard action; each unit in the formation moves up to its speed and changes facing up to one face. However, when wheeling, at least one of the formation’s units must remain in place.

Shift: As a move action, a formation can shift 1 square in any direction. All units in the formation that shift must shift the same direction, but the commander of the formation can choose not to shift any or all eligible units in the formation.

Charge: As a standard action, the unit moves its speed (minimum of 2 squares) and makes an attack at +1. The unit must also make a morale check upon charging; if it engages an enemy at the end of its charge, it gets a +2 bonus on this morale check, but if it fails to engage an enemy at the end of its charge, it suffers a -2 penalty.

Attack/Use Power: As a standard action, the unit can make an attack or use one of its powers. A few unit powers require minor or move actions instead; these are noted.

Push: A unit may make an attack against Fortitude to push the enemy 1 hex.

Fill: When units are engaged in combat, at the start of a formation’s turn it automatically transfers one unit from the back to the front lines as soldiers move up to keep pressing the attack. This is not a voluntary action, and the commander may not choose to decline this start-of-turn fill. In addition, if the commander of a formation so chooses, he can spend one or more minor actions to fill the front ranks, moving one unit from the back to the front of the combat. When filling, a unit may not shift into a square that expands the front line unless it is adjacent to at least one enemy unit, and it may not push the front line forward.

Opportunity Attacks: Standard rules for opportunity attacks apply, except that each unit may only make one opportunity attack in a given round.

AFTER THE BATTLE
The victor of a battle can recover half of his lost units given time for an extended rest (six hours). He must hold the battlefield for at least one hour or he can only recover half of this amount. This recovery represents the return of soldiers wounded, knocked out, disarmed, fled or otherwise removed from the fray by circumstances, but not killed.

SAMPLE UNITS

WARFORGED INFANTRY
Creatures/Unit: 20
AC: 21; Fort: 17; Ref: 15; Will: 14
Hit Points: 28 (surge 8)
Speed: 5
POWERS
Longsword: L+8 vs. AC; 1d6+4 damage
Shock Troops: If the warforged infantry charges, it gets +2 to damage until the end of its next turn.

IMPERIAL PIKEMEN
Total Units: 40
Creatures/Unit: 20
AC: 18; Fort: 16; Ref: 15; Will: 14
Hit Points: 20 (surge 5)
Speed: 5
POWERS
Pike: Reach 2; L+7 vs. AC; 1d6+2 damage.
Threatening Reach (immediate reaction): When an enemy moves adjacent to the Imperial Pikemen, they may make a pike attack as a free action.
Shield Wall: The Pikemen gain a +4 bonus to AC and Reflex until the end of its next turn.

That is the basic framework I'm using. I also am instituting a pre-battle "train the troops to use a stunt as an encounter power" type thing- things like add a 1 square push to an attack, add a 1 square pull to a move/shift, etc.

This is v. 0.9 of the system; its first real test is tonight! Wish me luck!

 

[F5]

This looks really well thought out. Thanks for posting it; I'm strongly considering a Yoink.

One question...this doesn't account for any kind of "consolidation", does it? If you have a unit composed of 9 Pikemen, you've actually got 9 minis out on the map, right? Otherwise, the rules for wheeling or filling the front ranks wouldn't actually come into play. It seems as though this is a way to simplify the calculations required for large groups fighting eachother, so that only the leader needs to resolve an attack/action for the entire unit, rather than a way to reduce a large group to a single physical entity. Or am I reading this wrong?

Definitely let us know how it works out! I'd love to see 4E come up with some strong mass-combat rules, and this would make a good start!

 

[the Jester]

This looks really well thought out. Thanks for posting it; I'm strongly considering a Yoink.

One question...this doesn't account for any kind of "consolidation", does it?

The scale I'm working at presently assumes approx. 20 men per unit. A formation of 10 units of pikemen, for example, is about 200 fighting men.

I'm hoping it works in actual play. I want it to be simple enough that everyone groks it quickly, and fun for the members of the group who aren't really into roleplaying. I've made an effort to detail 2-4 npcs in the companies each of my pcs will be leading tonight (generally 5 units per company, which I expect the players will array in formations, but I can't be sure about that!).

I'll post in the next few days with some feedback from actually using the system in play.

 

[the Jester]

Okay, so it's late and I'm tired, a little drunk & stuff. But here is the after-action report:

It seemed to go really well!

The guy who I was most worried wouldn't enjoy it seemed to have a really good time. I think the fact that I invested heavily in some roleplaying with the soldiers, sergeants, etc, before the battle really paid off.

The battle itself- wave one was easy, and it was supposed to be; it was a bunch of crap units as an initial probe of the enemy's strength.

The second wave had me a touch worried; I thought the party might be overwhelmed. HAH! They prepared the battlefield ahead of time, digging trenches and making big areas of difficult terrain. The enemy advance was thus highly fragmented. The pcs cleaned the bad guys' clock, at least for the first two scenarios of the war, and I think they might attempt a stand against the third (much larger and much more dangerous) wave. If they perform anywhere near as well as they did tonight, they might just pull off a significant victory there, too!

The system was simple enough that it worked with a few guys who aren't really into wargaming, and it played out complex enough to satisfy those of us who are more inclined to complex, somewhat more simulationist systems. It seemed like everyone had a really good time- like I said, investing in some "getting to know the npc" time really helped, imho.

The pcs are going to be undergoing a multi-year siege over the next few sessions (I think). I'm going to use this system, combined with the victory point system in the 3e Heroes of Battle, to run the war. Some encounters will be on a unit scale, some on a single-character scale, some skill tests will be involved, etc. I'm really excited by how well tonight's first run of the system in the campaign went over!

 

[JohnBiles]

I've been toying with this issue some; I used the swarm concept to create higher level, larger sized versions of units in order to accomodate the idea of mass combat units. Which potentially means a party could fight dozens of people at once and win. Which is how I like it

The Original Unit:

Darokinian Experienced Archer Level 1 Artillery
Medium natural humanoid XP 100
Initiative +3 Senses Perception +0
HP 28; Bloodied 14
AC 15; Fortitude 14, Reflex 14, Will 12
Saves +2 vs. Fear Effects
Speed 6
r Precise Shooting (standard; at-will) | Weapon
Ranged 15/30; +8 vs. AC; 1d10+3 damage and +2 to an ally to hit the target before the end of your next turn.
m Rapier (standard; at-will) | Weapon
+6 vs. AC; 1d6+3 damage and +2 to AC against that target until the end of his next turn.
Alignment Unaligned Languages Common + one other
Skills Endurance +8, Streetwise +6
Str 13 (+1) Dex 16 (+3) Wis 11 (+0)
Con 16 (+3) Int 10 (+0) Cha 12 (+1)
Equipment Leather with Breastplate, Longbow, Rapier

Darokinian Archers learn to fire in volleys and coordinate their fire to support each other. They are usually shielded from attack by Darokinian Pikemen.


Darokinian Archer Formation Level 6 Artillery
Huge natural humanoid XP 250
Initiative +7 Senses Perception +10
HP 61; Bloodied 30
AC 18; Fortitude 19, Reflex 19, Will 17
Saves +2 vs. Fear Effects
Speed 6
r Precise Shooting (standard; at-will) | Weapon
Ranged 15/30; +13 vs. AC; 1d10+4 damage and +2 to an ally to hit the target before the end of your next turn.
m Rapier (standard; at-will) | Weapon
+11 vs. AC; 1d6+4 damage and +2 to AC against that target until the end of his next turn.
Arrow Storm (standard; Refresh 5-6) | Weapon
Burst 1 within 10 squares; +13 vs. AC; 3d6+4 damage
Alignment Unaligned Languages Common + one other
Skills Endurance +12
Str 16 (+6) Dex 19 (+7) Wis 14 (+5)
Con 19 (+7) Int 13 (+4) Cha 15 (+5)
Equipment Leather with Breastplate, Longbow, Rapier

This is a force of 20 massed Darokinian archers with 2 seargents, operating in a tight, fixed formation according to drill. This can only be deployed in open areas very well.

 

[the Jester]

See, my units have about half the hps of the base unit, and damage is reduced from the base creature's and tilted to make it more average. I wanted units to drop in combat (though if you win and hold the field for one hour, you recover half of all dropped units).

 

[F5]

This looks great, Jester. Thanks for the update.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I've been toying with this issue some; I used the swarm concept to create higher level, larger sized versions of units in order to accomodate the idea of mass combat units. Which potentially means a party could fight dozens of people at once and win. Which is how I like it

Neat! I would probably give them a damaging aura (representing the various weapon strikes they would do if someone got too close) to make them more swarm like, but it's not necessary.

I think the swarm idea is a great way to reflect how an army could challenge a dragon. If the dragon is, say, level 20, have a couple of level 18 or so swarms composed of soldiers/militia/what have you, and they would be able to legitimately challenge the dragon. Also, because they take more damage against area attacks, wizards would love to fight them (and that dragon breath would be murder ).

 

[the Jester]

I'm thinking about next session, and I'm going to combine a unit-level battle with an individual pc level battle. Here's how.

I'm already working on my battlemat. I split it long ways. On the smaller half, I've drawn a path about 40' wide. This is the top of the outer wall of the city of Fandelose, which the pcs are trying to defend.

Damn, I'm excited by how well all of this is playing out!

Anyhow, the wall's crenelated, and it has various tools for the pcs to use on it- vats of boiling oil, pots of hot sand, T sticks (for pushing ladders away from the wall), spare arrows and bolts, etc.

I envision, basically, a couple of the pcs here with a bunch of npc warriors under their control from their units.... vs. an unending stream of minions, as the rabble of the Six-Fingered Hand tries to scale the walls and assault them. Eventually, maybe some harder foes- a siege tower? Who knows...

Meanwhile, the other half of the map is scaled to unit combat. It shows the frontal arc of the city- where the enemy is coming in from. The wall is one square thick, just enough for one unit of troops to be on each square's length of wall. The other pcs will be controlling overall defense from here- where are the archers, do we send out sorties, etc.- while the massive hordes of the enemy come in a massive assault.

I think the split will be interesting and fun, and the "split our focus without really splitting the party" thing is pretty cool... especially if I run both at once, on the same battlemat, like I'm intending. What do you think?