How would you rate the d20 rules?

[Elaer]

Oh, 3e is definitely better than 2e, IMHO. I mean, there are others out there who like 2e better, and to each his own, but I'm one of the many who stopped playing D&D all together until August of 2000.

The only problem I have with d20 is that its hedging out other systems. Its capitalism, and progress (I guess), but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I mean, I'm about to by Hero 5th edition just to support a really good system that is great for its genre, even though everywhere I turn there's people saying that the still non-existent d20 Supers is the way to go. I'm sorry, but I see no reason to make every system d20.

By the way, for a great system for fantasy, check out DP9's Tribe 8 and that incarnation of the Silhouette System. If I had to choose one "universal system" that would be it.

 

[Ranger REG]

It can't be helped when most RPG customers prefers this rules system over the others.

You could try to convince gamers to buy other non-d20 products just to balance things out. Good luck.

 

[adndgamer]

I agree. I would like to see a variety of different gaming systems, but d20 is hedging out lots of stuff.

I think I'm gonna go buy more Hackmaster, BESM, and GURPs stuff.

 

[ThenHeCame]

I've never seen what the problem was over Levels and HPs. Some people I'vet met say that ruins the game for them, I still just don't understand how....

Theres the realism element to it, but how realistic do you want a game to be? Kinda defeats the purpose. Oh well.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Top notch here! The game IS fantastic. Especially compared to AD&D, where you almost had more restrictions than possibilities sometimes! I like the (almost) total freedom you have in creating and customizing your character: The classes are finally free of race restrictions, you can combine them all, you have a skill system that actually makes a difference between "having done that once" and "doing that all the time", the feats help you turn a character of a quite generic class (especially fighter and rogue) into a character unlike any ohter (well, not quite, but within the party at any rate, even if they're all of the same class!), prestige classes put the finishing touches to the game.

Personally, I like the way classes and hit points are regulated. The classes are quite generic, after all, you have races to further customize your char, and of course skills, feats and PrCs (and the ability to multiclass almost freely) to make your character quite unique, without enabling you to create a jack-of-all-trades who excells in everything. Hit Points make the game quick and easy, without the need of five different rolls and half a dozen tables in order to see what happened to you when you got hit. (Also, this can get ugly very quickly, and it somehow doesn't fit my shiny-knight-view of my characters!


I must confess, though, that I have not had direct contact with so many other systems: I play 3e and AD&D 2e (that's because they refuse to change to the new rules and I'd have quite a boring sunday if I insisted on 3e only), and I had some first-hand experience with DSA (Das Schwarze Auge, a German RPG, created by the very same guy who is responsible for the first translation of D&D into german. German translations of D&D are the greatest crime I ever witnessed being done to a language, by the way) where races and classes are one thing (you can be a fighter or an elf, but there is no such thing as an elven fighter), and all spells are rhymes (annoying to the extreme). Luckily I heard that they changed those worst parts in the new edition of the rules, which, as far as I heard, are being translated for the American marked (or already have).

 

[Dispater]

It's nice apart from a few things. One is ability checks, in which the d20 system give too much random factor.

Another are the all frickin prestige classes. But that's d&d, so I won't bitch about it...

 

[Tonguez]

Superb

I started on Original Basic DnD (red box set) and advanced to 1st Ed ADnD. got turned off by 2nd Ed and went and played GURPS instead.

Saw 3rdEd and returned to DnD because of it
- the system is great, intuitive and easy to use. Feats and Skills are wonderful and as Spycraft mechanics have shown can only get better and better.

Remember too that d20 is not the same as the class/level system of 3rdEd DnD. A Classless system is easy to do with D20 (just make BAb a skill and Class Abilities Feats) a Levelless system could be done using feats too (but is a bit harder to define)

PS and THAC0 sucks

 

[KarinsDad]

I rated it nice.

The reason is that they still have a lot of bogus stuff in it. When I first picked it up and read it, I felt I was looking at 2E with someone's good, but not great, set of house rules.

Some problems with the game consist of:

1) Too many darn feats. Picking 6 feats in the lifetime of a character out of the over 300 that currently exist is a pain in the butt. And, as a DM, it's even more of a pain in the butt weeding out the broken feats that some person somewhere in the world thought was a cool idea, but didn't give two seconds to considering balance.

2) Too few skill points. It's next to impossible to be skillful in more than a few areas, however, heroic fantasy literature is filled with examples of extremely skillful characters. And, some of the skills could have been combined to lower the total number of skills in the game.

3) Opposed Checks. Too much random variation due to using a D20. A 23 Str Troll should be able to keep a door closed on an 18 Str Fighter trying to get in all day long since it is twice as strong.

4) There are some obvious Multi-classing elements that they did not shake out during playtesting such as Rangers gaining most of their cool abilities at first level, hence, a lot of players take one level of Ranger and no more.

5) They did not attempt to balance out some spell levels such as (for example) Cure Light Wounds where Rangers get it at second level. Since Rangers already do not get spells until 4th level, this basically double whammies him with respect to curing. The spell has very low utility by the time he gets it at 8th or 10th level.

6) The ability to ignore AoOs. They should have AoO Resistance in the game, but not AoO Immunity for PCs since AoOs is the main balancing factor for alternating turned based combat.


All in all, they did a fine job. But, with as many pages of errata and FAQ that they currently have, it seems that the game is too complex for one small group of people to think of everything and adequately keep it fine tuned. YMMV.

 

[Li Shenron]

I rate it Superb: no game is perfect, so there's no point in saving the top mark for a perfect game, there will simply never be one!

I have played a house rules - heavy enhanced version of old D&D, 2ed AD&D (both for a short while) and 3ed since early 2001. I immediately realized the great improvements, first of all the clear simplicity: by simplifying the mechanics, players can be thrown into the game without much stress, and later you can expand the game itself more easily.

I may be too excited, but I won't exchange anything with the previous editions...

 

[CRGreathouse]

1) Too many darn feats. Picking 6 feats in the lifetime of a character out of the over 300 that currently exist is a pain in the butt. And, as a DM, it's even more of a pain in the butt weeding out the broken feats that some person somewhere in the world thought was a cool idea, but didn't give two seconds to considering balance.

Interesting - I find that there are too few feats, especially for high-level fighters.

2) Too few skill points. It's next to impossible to be skillful in more than a few areas, however, heroic fantasy literature is filled with examples of extremely skillful characters. And, some of the skills could have been combined to lower the total number of skills in the game.

Don't take max ranks in all of your skills, then.

3) Opposed Checks. Too much random variation due to using a D20. A 23 Str Troll should be able to keep a door closed on an 18 Str Fighter trying to get in all day long since it is twice as strong.

Actuially, this is a real problem - especially since the troll's 4 times as strong.

All in all, they did a fine job. But, with as many pages of errata and FAQ that they currently have, it seems that the game is too complex for one small group of people to think of everything and adequately keep it fine tuned. YMMV.

I really wish they were better with errata - couldn't they simply get *one* contract editor (who hadn't seen any earlier versions of the draft) to look over the penultimate draft for even *one* day? Surely that could remove much of the errata; if they could afford a week (in payment and time), I'd expect a 90% kill rate.