D&D 5E How would you wish WOTC to do Dark Sun

[Bacon Bits]

Mad Max also has positive messages. Just because it isn’t a happy setting doesn’t mean the things it has to say aren’t good things to be saying.

Yeah, the bad things in DS have very clear, massive signs hanging over them that read "EVIL" in big, bold, flaming letters.

There's slavery, but it's based on power and it clearly doesn't work. There's those with privilege, but they're all very evil, usually getting their power directly from even more evil creatures who are blatant authoritarians. There's xenophobia, but it's everywhere and not associated with one culture or race. There's unchecked environmental abuse, and everybody knows it's seriously messed things up and it can't be fixed.

IMO, the most "problematic" parts of AD&D Dark Sun are: the depiction of Elves (a whole race that has antisocial personality disorder), and the depiction of Muls (sometimes described as degenerate half-breeds, IIRC), and both of those could pretty easily be modified and cleaned up.

You can just make the chances by rebooting the setting. Simply ignore the Prism Pentad stuff. Poof, it doesn't matter any more.

Yes, but then people will assume that the characters they know still exist in and around Tyr and that the plotline is still going to happen. You have to say something about what happened. Even if it's, "nobody in the Prism Pentad books ever returned to Tyr... not Borys, not Rajaat, not Rikus, not Sadira, not Tithian... no trace of Ur Draxa was ever found".

If you want to just handwave it away you certainly can, but the campaign setting book needs to satisfy the people who will read that and say, "No, that's dumb there was already a story."

 

[Micah Sweet]

Just start at the same time as the 1st boxed set, and let things roll from there. Like how Ebberon never updates its timeline.

 

[Remathilis]

Could work, but would be expensive.

(honestly, that would be my favourite format for any setting)

Dark Sun more than most. A great many of the classic D&D settings still use the Core Rules and only lightly flavor them: an elf cleric may have some slight differences from setting to setting, but ultimately plays the same. Not so in Dark Sun, every part of him is different from the PHB: his racial stats, his class, his background, his magic, his gear, very little works as written in the PHB. The easiest solution then if to write a new PHB for it..

 

[Danzauker]

Yeah, the bad things in DS have very clear, massive signs hanging over them that read "EVIL" in big, bold, flaming letters.

There's slavery, but it's based on power and it clearly doesn't work. There's those with privilege, but they're all very evil, usually getting their power directly from even more evil creatures who are blatant authoritarians. There's xenophobia, but it's everywhere and not associated with one culture or race. There's unchecked environmental abuse, and everybody knows it's seriously messed things up and it can't be fixed.

IMO, the most "problematic" parts of AD&D Dark Sun are: the depiction of Elves (a whole race that has antisocial personality disorder), and the depiction of Muls (sometimes described as degenerate half-breeds, IIRC), and both of those could pretty easily be modified and cleaned up.



Yes, but then people will assume that the characters they know still exist in and around Tyr and that the plotline is still going to happen. You have to say something about what happened. Even if it's, "nobody in the Prism Pentad books ever returned to Tyr... not Borys, not Rajaat, not Rikus, not Sadira, not Tithian... no trace of Ur Draxa was ever found".

If you want to just handwave it away you certainly can, but the campaign setting book needs to satisfy the people who will read that and say, "No, that's dumb there was already a story."

You can detail Ur Draxa as much as you want, so Tithian. They are arements that existed but were revealed later.

But you could also fix this by setting the timeline to 100 years before the PP instead of later and leave all PP material out (or to a separate supplement).

It's like writing a sourcebook for SW in the Empire era that just describes the status quo. in your campaign Luke Skywalker could just be klled as a kid by a Tusken and you're not forced to follow the canon events. (you could if you wanted of course).

 

[Danzauker]

Dark Sun more than most. A great many of the classic D&D settings still use the Core Rules and only lightly flavor them: an elf cleric may have some slight differences from setting to setting, but ultimately plays the same. Not so in Dark Sun, every part of him is different from the PHB: his racial stats, his class, his background, his magic, his gear, very little works as written in the PHB. The easiest solution then if to write a new PHB for it..

Admittedly, some less exotic settings could be dealt with a PHB/DMG combo and a MM only.

Still, I'd prefer a player guide and a DM guide to be separate books. The player books could be a valuable source even in a homebrew setting if all or most fluff were left in the DM book.

 

[Charlaquin]

Dark Sun more than most. A great many of the classic D&D settings still use the Core Rules and only lightly flavor them: an elf cleric may have some slight differences from setting to setting, but ultimately plays the same. Not so in Dark Sun, every part of him is different from the PHB: his racial stats, his class, his background, his magic, his gear, very little works as written in the PHB. The easiest solution then if to write a new PHB for it..

I don’t know, I think you could (and WotC probably would, if they do Dark Sun 5e) pull it off with setting-specific subraces or race variants and subclasses. A lot of the old-school fans would be displeased with that approach, but I think newer players, which make up the vast majority of the base, would respond better to that approach.

On the other hand, I don’t think newer players are exactly clambering for Dark Sun.

 

[Dausuul]

Lore-wise: Total reset to the status quo as of the original boxed set. Do not contradict any lore that was revealed during/after the PP, but also do not make it official.

This is really the only way to satisfy a) the people who enjoyed the Prism Pentad and were fans of later-released lore, and b) those of us who despise the PP and the whole Rajaat backstory. Give us the mysteries and unexplored possibilities, and let us choose in our own campaigns how to resolve them.

Mechanics-wise: Work within the 5E framework where possible and don't get hung up on nitpicky details. Defiler and preserver are wizard traditions, templar is a warlock patron, each element is a cleric domain. For paladins, explain that they are unknown in the setting and require DM approval to play; provide suggested backstory options like "I am the last of a secret order" and "I'm trying to follow a code I learned from ancient books."

Psionics must exist, but I don't think it's vitally important to have a stand-alone psion class. The setting works fine without it.

Develop a fleshed-out system for survival challenges, where the wilderness itself becomes a deadly foe. This will probably require either banning the "camping spells" like goodberry and Leomund's tiny hut, or putting limitations on them such that they can't sustain you over the long term.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don’t know, I think you could (and WotC probably would, if they do Dark Sun 5e) pull it off with setting-specific subraces or race variants and subclasses. A lot of the old-school fans would be displeased with that approach, but I think newer players, which make up the vast majority of the base, would respond better to that approach.

On the other hand, I don’t think newer players are exactly clambering for Dark Sun.

You're probably right: new players may not be demanding Dark Sun, but I think many would enjoy it. 5e has been around long enough that something with very different setting assumptions could get some traction. Dark Sun might just fit the bill.

 

[R_J_K75]

DS is cut off from the multiverse

Unless I missed something since 2E, i.e. 3E and 4E, Dark Sun is not cut off from the multiverse. It can be reached by planar travel by navigating through the Grey. I think that this was actually detailed in a Planescape book because I just flipped through the 2E DS revised boxed set and didnt see it. It has a Crystal Sphere so therefore can be reached by Spelljamming. My opinion is that it would be more correct to say that finding it by doing either is a miniscule percentage at best though, so its there, just hidden if you will.

 

[ninjayeti]

Its pretty clear that WotC will need to do multiple versions of the 5E Dark Sun to satisfy both old and new fans. I suggest at least the following:

1) Dark Sun OG Edition
Literally just a reprint of the 2E rules with an appendix on how to covert 5E characters to work with 2E. Nevertheless at least 90% of the Dark Sun grognards will ragequit the setting because MEARLS RUINED IT!!!!!!

2) Volo's Guide to Athas
Pretty much just the FR except all the artwork is done by Brom. So if you ever wanted to see Elminster in a loincloth and chest harness this is the version for you!

3) Choose your own Dark Sun
This one is 1,500 pages and comes in a 3-ring binder and a Sharpie so you can just tear out or redact all of the stuff you don't like.

4) Darkest Sun
No psionics or setting info, just rules for gnome paladins to get unicorn mounts. Because when you get right down to it what's more Dark Sun than destroying people's hopes and dreams? The Dragon Kings who rule WotC will bathe in the tears of the fanboys and restore their immortality for another 1,000 years.

5) Matt Mercer's Dark Sun
Why pander to the handful of hardcore Dark Sun OG's when its waaaaay more profitable to pander to the Critical Role fanbase?