D&D 3E/3.5 How's 3.5 Harm working for you? (stirring mud from the river bottom)

[Storminator]

You could compare Harm to Disintegrate (also a 6th-level spell). At 2d6 per level capped at 40d6, it averages 140 pts of damage. Although there are downsides to it:

- Harm caps at level 15 and disintegrate caps at level 20. You must be level 20 to ave. 140.
- "Holding the charge" melee touch vs. a wasted ranged touch (like you said)

Harm is slightly less versitile in that undead are immune to it. And disintegrate has better utility uses. Good luck getting passed the locked iron door with a harm spell.

Just some thoughts...

You can't Empower or Maximize Harm tho. Compare the 15th level Harm (150 hp, save for half), vs the 15th level Empowered Disintegrate (30d6*1.5-->157 hp, save for almost all) or at 17th level, the Maximized Dis (204 hp, again, save for almost all).

And Death Ward stops Harm cold.

I must say it works for me. And in my evil game I have a particularly nasty Greater Glyph prepared...

PS

 

[Shard O'Glase]

You can't Empower or Maximize Harm tho. Compare the 15th level Harm (150 hp, save for half), vs the 15th level Empowered Disintegrate (30d6*1.5-->157 hp, save for almost all) or at 17th level, the Maximized Dis (204 hp, again, save for almost all).

And Death Ward stops Harm cold.

I must say it works for me. And in my evil game I have a particularly nasty Greater Glyph prepared...

PS

Yeah disingrate has other functions like vs inanimate objects and it can be metamagicked but in a fight it sucks in comparison to harm. It can do comparable damage on a unsucessful save but on a sucessful save harm spanks disinigrate. Hell if harm was 9th level and I could choose it would be a tossup which I'd take it or power word kill. I wouldn't say the same about disinigrate.

 

[Wish]

Polar Ray is a poor comparison to any other spell. It's a useless spell. Compare it to the other 8th level spells, and it's not even close. Spells like Mind Blank, Discern Location, Horrid Wilting, Maze and Prismatic Wall are what we should be looking at. Polar Ray is feeble compared to any of them. Somebody screwed up on that spell, and I'd expect to see it changed at some point in the future, perhaps as soon as the first wave of errata.

 

[Wycen]

I got my first 3.5 Harm attack in 2 weeks ago. I liked it because everything worked out right. Had circumstances changed, I might not like it.

Circumstances were thus: our party consists of my cleric, a fighter, fighter/rogue, sorcerer and wizard. Turns out, our fighter was intercepted on his way to meet us, so we met a doppleganger in his form. We go to a meeting and of course our fighter switches sides and battle ensues when the dopplegangers friends show up.

My cleric domains are darkness and prophecy, (from Armies of the Abyss), so my first level domain slot is True Strike. The first round I cast Death Ward, the doppleganger drinks a potions and turns invisible. Second round I move to attack orc, doppleganger attacks somebody else and is visible again. 3rd round I move over to doppleganger and cast True Strike. 4th round I cast Harm and touch the doppleganger, hitting of course, he fails his saving throw, dropping him to 1 hit point. Next round I smack him, he falls unconscious and of course his shape reveals him to be a doppleganger, not our fighter.

So, I liked it because I hit the target, he failed his save, and next round I k.o.ed him with an upper cut. Had it turned out he had a really good Will save, I might not have liked it so much.

 

[Dthamilaye]

Polar ray works ok when it is empowered and maximized. And you only need either enough of Incantatrix, or 21st level with the feat for 10th level spells, or sudden empower.

And Rod of Maximize, of course.

Add few CL for PrC abilites and magic items and you got 150+12,5d6 non-saveable (probably sonic) damage. And you can crit with that.

Of course, that is a lot of things you need to have for it to have maximum impact, but on the other hand, you can cast several of them and the above is quite normal for a damage spell caster at those levels.

 

[Li Shenron]

I liked the fact that 3.0 Harm alone couldn't kill. The 3.5 Harm can't kill only if the save is successful.

 

[dravot]

My cleric character has yet to use harm (or heal vs. undead) since we went to 3.5 - then again, he only used it a couple of times in 3.0, so it's not a must use spell for me. There's enough carnage dealt out by my group that saving spells for other things isn't a bad plan.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

It's a great spell now. Before it was just plain broken. I've used it against the party a couple of times (when I used it the first time, it did something that nothing before it ever accomplished: It punched the dwarven barbarian down to almost no HP and scared him real good). The party also uses it (although heal is more popular at the moment, as they go against undead a lot).

I think the spell is OK now. It sure is strong, but it only affects a single creature, and the wizard's place was never to hit a single creater for as much damage as possible. Wizards are here for mass destruction.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Polar ray works ok when it is empowered and maximized. And you only need either enough of Incantatrix, or 21st level with the feat for 10th level spells, or sudden empower.

And Rod of Maximize, of course.

Well, that is a whole lot of proviso's and unusual circumstances including epic levels or a 3.0e broken prestige class...

So I guess in a roundabout way you are saying that Polar Ray is really a not very OK spell after all

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Polar Ray is a poor comparison to any other spell. It's a useless spell. Compare it to the other 8th level spells, and it's not even close. Spells like Mind Blank, Discern Location, Horrid Wilting, Maze and Prismatic Wall are what we should be looking at. Polar Ray is feeble compared to any of them. Somebody screwed up on that spell, and I'd expect to see it changed at some point in the future, perhaps as soon as the first wave of errata.

ok polar ray sucks as an 8th level spell and doens't compare to the other spells of its level. At least it does follow the damage caps(though maybe they should be rewritten for the single target effects on the high level end) But unfortunatley harm does compare well with 8th level spells and its only 6th level.

Harm or maze, me I'm going with harm. Harm or irresistable dance, tough call but dance is more insulting so I'd go with that. harm or horrid wilting depends on the foes, harm more damage but only to one, horrid wilting less damage but to a group.

Heck harm or power word kill, would you rather kill someone no save if they have like 100 hp or less, but do nothing if they have more or do 150 hp or 75 on a save. Harm is certianly more effctive its only loss is its touch range in comparison to PWK. Perosnlly I think PWK is a bit sub par for 9th level, at lest compared to other 9th level spells, but harm shouldn't come close to it in power especially since wiz/sor are supposed ot do more damage than clerics.

Either harm is too good, or every wiz/sor damage dealing and some save or else spells of 6th level and beyond are vastly sub par.