D&D 5E Hp as meat and abstraction

[RangerWickett]

All those Cure Wounds spells have infused your blood with positive energy, so you can survive more horrific trauma before passing out, and you heal dramatically faster. So if you've got 100 HP and you take 50 damage, you've probably got a gash down the length of your chest, slicing open your ribcage, with your organs held in only by supernatural force.

Obviously.

 

[jodyjohnson]

I don't take HP to be purely physical. But I very much dislike the take on HP in Next. To me HP is like light, a particle and a wave. Pushing it to much in one direction or the other leaves out certain styles of play. It hard codes certain playstyles, bakes them into the rules.

Here's how I handle it at the table:

"Joe, Mike, Nate you rest for an hour and then move on to the next area fully recovered."

"Matt and Bill, you're both still at the inn healing from that encounter 3 days ago. The local wenches/nurses/pretty boys attend to your needs."

Both sides get what they want. Unless someone wants to play band-aid cleric.

 

[jodyjohnson]

So in 3e when you played a warforged character (a construct), you were getting physically more dense when you leveled? And I guess, stronger too, or else your speed would slow down as you leveled. Same for the zombie template in 3e?

I don't get to play, I'm always the DM.

If you are a Hero, you get Hero Points. If you are a door or a punching bag you don't.

If a character becomes a heroic zombie, then yes they can have some Hero Points too. And then they get shot in the head with a shotgun.

I'm a Genre Sim gamer, not a Physics Sim gamer.

 

[TerraDave]

I do take it as some physical damage.

What is the gaping wound for the low level character is a scratch for a high level one. But its a scratch.

I would say the real problem is not standard physical attacks, which we tend to focus on, but other things.

In 4E, for example, you often catch on fire, get poisoned, driven mad, ect, and have this for ~ 6-30 seconds of time. Your on fire...you are on fire. Maybe your clothes take most of the damage, the burn is minor, etc. But you are on fire. Some physical damage takes place.

 

[Wulfgar76]

I've got an idea for resolving this issue once and for all: the two groups get together and fight it out. The group with the most people standing at the end obviously has the more correct idea for how taking damage in combat works.

Actually, on second thought, that might be a bad idea. The "hit points as nonphysical combat efficacy" people would keep missing their opponents, but still think that they were wearing them down due to their hilariously off-target blows eroding their enemies' luck and divine protection. The "hit points as meat" crowd would then proceed to beat the ever-loving crap out of them, thus showing that the "bloodied" condition is, in fact, literal.

A character still taking half damage when he successfully dodges a lightning bolt must fill you with tortuous cognitive dissonance.

 

[Obryn]

I'm in the "ignore all metaphysical conundrums and just play" camp.

The only way to win the HP debate is not to debate it.

 

[Fanaelialae]

The idea is some people view hp as meat and others don't. The question is how can fifth edition allow both playstyles to exist in the same game but at different tables?

One problem that has come up is damage on a miss for weapon attacks. For the hp is meat crowd it doesnt make sense. If you miss there is no physical damage. A fireball makes sense because the fire can move around all defenses.

I suggest for damage on a miss that if you miss by three points or less you deal the str mod damage. This should make both camps happy.

I'm not sure that it's really "hp as meat" that's the problem in the case of DoaM. It seems, to me, to be more a disagreement as to what a miss constitutes.

To me, DoaM isn't just the idea that you're wearing the opponent down, but also includes things like hitting him so frickin hard that the force of the blow hurts despite not penetrating armor. Since AC contributes to miss chance, I think that's fair. I seem to recall reading historical accounts of knights crushed inside their armor that would lend a degree of credibility to the idea, for me at least.

From what I've gathered, others prefer a more literal interpretation where a miss is swinging at thin air. And in all fairness, if you interpret a miss as something that could be effortlessly side stepped or (at best) glances off of armor without notice, I can see the issue.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that's where the major disjoin regarding DoaM stems from.

Personally, I like DoaM. The idea of a mighty barbarian whose blows cause his enemies to reel with pain even when their armor absorbs some of the blow is appealing to me. But then, I also prefer HP as more than just meat in most cases.

 

[sheadunne]

I like to pretend that it's just meat. It makes me feel warm and cozy. But the closer I stare at it, the stranger it becomes, until eventually it's just a number I change from time to time because the game says I have to.

 

[Alzrius]

A character still taking half damage when he successfully dodges a lightning bolt must fill you with tortuous cognitive dissonance.

Not particularly, since that relies on the incorrect assumption that a successful Reflex save means completely dodging something, rather than "reacting in a manner so as to make a serious blow less serious."

Of course, it doesn't matter either way, since there's surely another character to yell at my PC, and in doing so restore his fatigue, his luck, and his God-given sphere of protection.

 

[Klaus]

The idea is some people view hp as meat and others don't. The question is how can fifth edition allow both playstyles to exist in the same game but at different tables?

You alter what can restore hp. If hp = meat, only magic or long term rests restore hp. If hp = abstract, a simple "breather" may restore them.