Human rogues can't sneak attack while hiding in shadows?

[kreynolds]

From the PH, page 76, Hide...

"You need cover or concealment..."

So, if a human, who is lacking low-light vision or darkvision, hides using the concealment provided by shadow, he can't sneak attack anybody, can he? If he's gaining concealment by hiding in shadow, doesn't that mean that his target also has concealment?

P.S. I'm having a not-enough-coffee morning, so bear with me and my question. Thanks!

 

[Henry]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but just because you are in shadow does not mean your target is.

Now, if the target is shadowed as well, then yes, you are correct - it's hard to kidney-stab someone you can't see.

 

[kreynolds]

Nevermind. Just got enough coffee.

 

[Darklone]

That means, if you are in the worst part of town, stay in the dark alleys, noone will attack you there

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

That's really stretching it. I would say that touch = no concealment for standard nighttime encounters. Otherwise, human rogues might as well take steroids and carry gasoline everywhere if they ever expect to extort or rob anything ever again.

 

[hong]

That means, if you are in the worst part of town, stay in the dark alleys, noone will attack you there

Note that dark alleys usually have places that provide cover as well....

ITYM if you are in the worst part of town, only go out at night. You'll never be sneak attacked again!

 

[kreynolds]

I would say that touch = no concealment for standard nighttime encounters.

Say what?

 

[Ferret]

If you can touch them you can hit them, it's like in the fog, far away things are harder to see.

 

[kreynolds]

Oh, well in that case, I'll have to disagree with that statement. Being able to touch something still doesn't negate the fact that you can't _see_ it. Fog, I can understand.

 

[Snipehunt]

IMO, that rule is misguided. It doesn't make sense to me that a character with the concealment caused by shadowy illumination can't be sneak attacked with melee weapons.

I buy that someone with total concealment (total darkness, fog, whatever) can't be sneak attacked, and I buy that magical concealment (blur, etc.) negates sneak attacks. Those effects make it difficult or impossible for the attacker to pick out a vulnerable point and get extra damage. But shadowy illumination doesn't totally conceal anybody, you just see them dimly. The character has concealment, not total concealment. This shouldn't have much affect if a character is directly adjacent to another. IME, I can see somebody right next to me pretty well in dim or shadowy light, and I've got pretty crappy night vision. Now, if you're 10 feet or more away, yeah, no way can I see well enough to use precision.

I think that's what Ferret's getting at. Shadowy illumination isn't total concealment, unless you hide. It's 20% concealment. If you're next to somebody, the "shadowy concealment" shouldn't have much effect.

IMRLC, we always ignore the SA defense of shadowy illumination. Now that I think about it, I think we generally ignore the shadowy illusion concealment affect all the time.

Also, doesn't it cut against the drain that a mugger can't sneak attack a victim in a dark alley? That's kind of the basis of sneak attack.