Human Wizard (Level 1, 11, and 21)

[neceros]

The Character Advancement table tells you when to replace a power. Also, you can retrain a power each level if you like.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I guess I'll go on record and official dub that 'Poor'.

Major function/balance of a core class in doubt that could have been clarified by addition (or alteration) of one sentence? Poor.

On the other hand, it's probably intentional. Take it literally, prepare two of your highest level powers.

According to the "errors" thread, clerics have a level 29 power doing 6d10+Wis AND some sort of further effect.

While a wizard's meteor storm (same level) only does 8d6+Int damage. Same range, same area.

Meaning that leaders are better at mass damage? Seems strange - so Wiz spells are perhaps a bit behind the curve, because you can load up more of them at once!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maudlin]

While a wizard's meteor storm (same level) only does 8d6+Int damage. Same range, same area.

Meaning that leaders are better at mass damage? Seems strange - so Wiz spells are perhaps a bit behind the curve, because you can load up more of them at once!

I don't mind about being behind the curve a tiny bit compared to other classes, but isn't the power level just extremely low as a whole?

I haven't read everything yet, but 8d6+Int is really underwhelming for a Meteor Swarm, no? Let's give it a +15 bonus for intelligence, implements and feats at that level, then you're doing on average... 43 damage.

Just imagine that.. A 29th level Epic Wizard Demigod of vast power, the nec plus ultra of Arcane might on the planet unleashes his most powerful spell at his hapless target, "obliterating them in a storm of fire and scorching the ground". When the smoke clears, Irontooth the level 3 kobold is almost bloodied... If he took another 'meteor swarm' in the face, he might almost be in trouble, but luckily mr. Archmage can't manage another one for 6 hours. Bit anticlimactic, that.

Same with the other spells. You get 1 Lightning Bolt per encounter at Level 7, and it does 2d6+Int? That's 2 more on average than a Magic Missile, and will barely singe an eyebrow on monsters of that level.

Am I missing something very obvious? How does that work our in practice?

 

[neceros]

The biggest problem I've seen with 4e is it has the EQ2 syndrome.

EverQuest 1 wasn't balanced. It was far from it. One class was good at soloing, another had to have a group to function, another had three times as many hitpoints as the next best capable in her role, etc. But, it was fun. It was similar to 4e that everything had to be stretched out: Mana regen was so slow you had to wait 10 minutes between fights, then blow your load in 2 minutes. A very fun game, and probably the premier influence on today's mmos.

Everquest 2 aimed to fix that problem. They rebalanced all the classes and races and abilities. They made sure every healer could do their job thoroughly, everyone felt useful, etc. EQ2 was fun, don't get me wrong, but it's predecessor had more subscribers, and it felt empty. It didn't feel plausible, as much as shooting lightning from your fingertips can be, at least.

I think Fourth Ed has the same issue. Yes, the classes are balanced and everything seems to work fluidly. The rules are great. I love how they streamlined everything. People seem to be having fun; the pre-games I've been involved in were fast paced, fun and adventurous. However, It felt like you didn't really matter: as my friend suggested, too cookie cutter.

I'm a big fan of D&D and 4e. I've invested time, money and interest in 4e by promotion, creating the character sheets and earnestly trying to make it a better game. However, I'm still cautious at it's potential. I'm waiting to see what sort of supplements are released for the game.

I imagine when I played 3e core it may have felt the same: New and impressive, but not too many option. Once we see everything 4e has to offer it may change my opinion, but as is I'm disappointed at how little ability one character really has. The sheer lack of abilities per character, even at level 30, the changed power scale, and a few other little things that I need to get used to are abruptly halting my fun.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I think Fourth Ed has the same issue. Yes, the classes are balanced and everything seems to work fluidly. The rules are great. I love how they streamlined everything. People seem to be having fun; the pre-games I've been involved in were fast paced, fun and adventurous. However, It felt like you didn't really matter: as my friend suggested, too cookie cutter.

For the record, I think you are are right. I loved EQ2 because of its design and I played it for ages and had way more fun than with EQ1.

However, I think it's human nature to want to feel like you are getting away with something. I think that EQ1 and previous versions of D&D catered to this. Some people would choose to be fighters...and that's cool and all, they got a lot of hitpoints, but the smart people would play wizards and use their knowledge to be better than everyone else in the party.

And people like that feeling...knowing that they ARE more powerful than anyone else in the group because they were smarter when making their characters.

However, in 4e, everyone feels cheated because no matter how hard they try, they can't actually get better than everyone else. No one can say "You hit for 10 damage? That's all? Hah...watch THIS! I hit 5 enemies for 67 damage, I give them -5 to their saves against my spell! And if that wasn't enough, they are all paralyzed for the next minute! Aren't I awesome?"

Whereas, in 4e, you may be able to hit for 25 instead of 15, but it just doesn't seem that much bigger. It doesn't seem like you have a huge advantage over everyone else anymore.

I don't have that problem because I've never felt bad about being just one part of a team that succeeded rather than the key member of that team. I've played wizards who delayed on most of their rounds and liked it, I've played clerics who do nothing but heal. I was always just happy to be part of the team. Which is why I enjoy 4e so much. I do know some players who want to be the spotlight hogs. They don't think they have a cool character unless they've found a way to reach into the system and make their character much better than other people. These are the same people who...so far...are the ones who don't like 4e.

 

[zoroaster100]

I agree meteor swarm looks too weak. However, as to the damage level of mid-level spells, I think we have to actually try this in practice first to see how magical implements, criticals and to a lesser extent, feats, work into the picture. Remember that with a +6 wand your critical will do maximum base damage plus 6d6 plus 6 for the wand enhancement, plus your Intelligence modifier.

 

[Tuerny]

How does your first level wizard have two per encounter powers?

 

[neceros]

How does your first level wizard have two per encounter powers?

He shouldn't. Today, after I re-read and played a session with my buddies, I released I had hurried way too much. But not a whole lot is wrong.

Should have fewer Encounter Powers.