"Humph, two ice storms!?!...at least 7th lv" or "game knowledge" your character

[Graf]

(I'm trying to avoid posting a gargantuan lump of text at the begining of this thread. This is something I've been chewing over for a while and I think its an inescapable fact that -CHARACTERS- in a game are aware that there are such a thing as levels and, at the very least, that all spell casters can be neatly catagorized into them.)

Grandal the wizard notices that Azarad-the-gray has cast two ice storms....
Grandal hasn't seen any wands or staves involved and he's confident that Azarad is probably at least 8th level (or he's really smart and 7th)....

Everything in D&D that casts spells (as opposed to uses supernatural abilities to produce spell like effects) gains spells in one of two ways: as a wizard or as a socercer. Its basically a fact. of the game.
[This is also true of clerics but I'm not specifically addressing them.]
If someone has just mastered fifth level spells (and they advance as a wizard -- which is pretty easy to verify since they need spell books and study each morning to repenish lost spells) they can cast 2 4th, 3 3rd, and 4 2nd and 1st level spells every day, with an extra spell here or there for feats and attribute bonuses.

Given that wizardly types are also quite anaylitical and intelligent they know that the system works like this; in otherwords that its extremely regular and that exceptions are themselves fairly regular.

So wizardly levels, what kinds of things they can cast, etc are basically common knowledge among all spell casters and anyone else who looks into the matter.

So most wizards probably introduce themselves by saying (in some fashion) what level they are. Of course people probably lie and use magic items (or try to use them) to fake higher level spells than they can cast.

Do people actually play this way?
(am I making -any- sense at all?)

 

[Ravellion]

In my campaign, one of the Wizard Academies gave titles to their students when they reached a new spell level. (see http://members.lycos.co.uk/tholestia/torgs.html ) This has been taken over by my entire campaign world, so people do recognise these levels. Actual character levels are not easily determined because of rings of wizardry, extra slot feats, prestige classes, pearls of power and such, and I don't think they should be either. (too much of a game mechanic instead of a tangible world characteristic IMO)

Rav

edit : spelling

 

[Thanee]

Well, of course, if you know about the spells being tossed around, you'll have a general idea of the power level of the wizard, but that's about it, you won't be able to tell the exact level or something, just a minimum and what else you will have to expect at least.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Renaissance Man]

Well, of course, if you know about the spells being tossed around, you'll have a general idea of the power level of the wizard, but that's about it, you won't be able to tell the exact level or something, just a minimum and what else you will have to expect at least.

Bye
Thanee

Agreed. And although the visual effects of a spell might suggest the spell that has been cast, I still require Spellcraft checks IMC to positively identify them.

 

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

Well, in my game Wizards speak about themselves as being from one to 9th Order, depending on maximum spell level they can cast.

 

[Zappo]

Clearly, the maximum spell level cast (and number of spells of those level cast) is an objective measure of power, but it isn't enough to exactly determine level. Varying INT, magical items, and lies all muddle the waters in this sense.

Mostly, I view this as a minor glitch of the representation of the setting by the rules.

 

[Tom Cashel]

Just another reminder that it's a game more than it's a simulation.

 

[Kal Torak]

I like the conspet of having mage orders based on the highest spell level they can cast. It would be both logical and interesting, many fantasy novels use something like it and the fact that spells are devided into levels suggests some sort of ingame level counting.

 

[Graf]

that could be cool

I like the conspet of having mage orders based on the highest spell level they can cast. It would be both logical and interesting, many fantasy novels use something like it and the fact that spells are devided into levels suggests some sort of ingame level counting.

That's pretty cool. I'll probably steal that one:
"I am Gu, I have mastered but the second circle of power. My meager abilities are at you disposal."
(ok i didn't make it sound cool but anyway...)

Not to play devils advocate with the people who see thing differently but:
its possible to be unsure of the source of a spell during a pitched combat.

However it doesn't change the fact that there are some real differences between spell casting and using items or abilities.
The biggest of which is that almost every spell has componets... innate abilties and magic items don't consume them. You can tell pretty easily what's going on.

Most wizards cease to fail spell craft checks after a certain point. Its not uncommon for a 10th level wizard to have a spell craft check in the mid-to-upper teens.

Since most spellcasting in a campaign occurs in a relaxed academic situation this -attitude- (that levels exist and everything on the planet that casts spells follows the same system) is probably quite strong.

Like anything there are exceptions but magic in D&D is quite regular compared to most real world phenomena and it should hold that intelligent people who spend their lives studying it have identified its basic rules.

 

[Xeriar]

I'm actually thinking of having multiple spell levels for most spells (save perhaps Wish) for this very purpose. Mostly to represent certain arcane formulas that are just more efficient...

For example, second level varient of magical missile, identicle to the first level one in every way (except that it can bypass shield, since it's not really that exact spell). Similarly, someone may find an Ice Storm scroll of third level...

And so on